Is this good summer training?

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Seems like a lot and not simple. Rest on workouts should be no longer then about 1:20. What are your times right now?

So I'm not a coach, I'm just an athlete. That said, this is way too much speedwork (assuming you are training for XC). I would suggest reading some training books, like Daniels Running Formula, 80/20 running, the Youth and Teen Running Encyclopedia, etc. The website RunnersConnect is great too.

You have a lot of high intensity/anaerobic workouts here and most coaches advise against that, typically you want to save this for later in the season. The author of the Youth and Teen Running Encyclopedia says that you should avoid any anaerobic work during a base phase. Although there's evidence for polarized training, this seems like it's still too much.

You have mile pace reps on Monday, sprints on Tuesday, a race on Wednesday, more track work on Friday, plus some strides. Even if you decide that you want your hard workouts to be fast (faster than lactate threshold pace, excluding very short efforts, like strides), you need to have easy or off days between them. Workouts "work" because things get broken down and then come back stronger, essentially. If you don't have any recovery time, then there's no opportunity for the "come back stronger" part (look up supercompensation for more info)

The 20x40m workout: If you want to work on basic speed, decrease the reps and increase the recovery. The full recovery actually makes it more effective because you hit a higher speed on each rep, which does more to improve basic speed. Strides are good and so are sprints, but you'd be better off running more easy miles with less time on the fast stuff. 6x100m strides 2-3 times a week and something like 5x 40m is plenty. You could also make them short hill sprints.

Friday: This one might be ok, but probably not the best workout you could be doing. I would guess the main benefit from a workout like that with such long recovery is pacing/gaining efficiency at 5k pace. Seems like a cruise intervals type workout

A 5k race is roughly 85% aerobic and 15% anaerobic FYI, so that's why you really want to focus on training your aerobic system, especially over summer. Do a little research on periodization and Lydiard. The way to train your aerobic system is long, slow distance (LSD). You should do some fast stuff, definitely, but prioritize the base building. You're almost certainly more limited by endurance than speed in a 5k race.

Island wrote:

Seems like a lot and not simple. Rest on workouts should be no longer then about 1:20. What are your times right now?

What do you mean not simple?

Times:

57.8 400 split (ran pretty tired after 1600, 800 double)

2:05 800

4:40 1600

10:38 3200

17:00 5k pretty fast course with some hills

FR wrote:

You have mile pace reps on Monday, sprints on Tuesday, a race on Wednesday, more track work on Friday, plus some strides.

Don't forget the 12x150m on Thursday.

By not simple I think he means your plan is very specific and complex when in reality it really does not need to be. Do lots of mileage, strides, tempos, and be patient. No need to hammer speedowork and go into your cross season tired out. Hard sprints and various anaerobic workouts in your "base" phase won't put you in a great spot for cross country, loads of volume and time spent out on your feet will put you in a great spot for cross country. Just my two cents.

My coach doesn't like criticism very much.

Read Summer of Malmo and just follow it as well as you can. Summer training should be based on feel and effort most days.

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/rtp3.htm

NotMalmo wrote:

Read Summer of Malmo and just follow it as well as you can. Summer training should be based on feel and effort most days.

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/rtp3.htm

Seems like a lot of miles. My coach says that I should stick with his plan.

Monday-For fartlek workouts I've found it easier to go based on time (like x minutes about tempo pace 1 minute easy).

Tuesday- If you're doing sprints you have to change the rest. The rest should be closer to 3 minutes and you should a lot fewer reps.(PM looks good)

Wednesday- You shouldn't be racing every week. Turn this into an easier run.

Thursday- Once again way too little rest and too many reps for the workout to be beneficial. (PM is fine)

Friday- Don't do intervals at race pace during the summer! Make it another easier run, maybe add in some short pickups during it if you want.

Saturday- it's good.

Intervals should not be a big part of your summer training. In the summer you should be getting in lots of mileage. The only workouts that should be done in the summer are the occasional tempo/fartlek, pure speed stuff(8x60m with 3 min rest), or hill sprints.

What kind of times does your team run at the beginning of xc/track vs. the end of the season.

1. Why would you do a static stretch before a recovery run? Why would you do a static stretch before any run? Static stretching is for the completion of your workout. Start your run slowly and get faster as you warm up, or do a dynamic warmup if you feel you need to. You can also roll (foam roller) or use a stick or something like that, but there don't static stretch and then run.

2. Lose the 40m sprints, and the 150s. You can stay in touch with your speed by doing strides at the end of a your runs 2 or 3 times a week. You're just working on turnover, not doing speedwork per se during your summer buildup. You're better off losing that morning 'workout', and making the afternoon run longer or perhaps a little faster and then tacking on the strides / core work.

3. Don't run the 800s at 5K pace. Save your 5K pace running for the season. Make them 1000s and run them closer to 10K pace. Shorten the recovery. Summer is the time to build strength. Fall is the time to race.

4. How old are you? How many years have you been running? How many weeks per mile are you running?

I'm definitely not saying you should do exactly this, but if I were running the mileage you are, this is roughly what I'd do-- I tried to keep some of your original workouts intact though. Feedback on this from other letsrunners appreciated. Don't blindly trust me or any other posts, do some research and then evaluate how you want to train. I'd suggest the Youth and Teen Running encyclopedia most-- the coach has his runners doing more speed work than most over summer, but is very adamant that none of it is anaerobic. He suggests some 200m cruise intervals, which I didn't include but you could if you want. Fellrnr is another great resource, and it's free

Monday: 1.5 mi warmup, 25-35 minute tempo/fartlek (any LT workout), strides, 1.5 mi cooldown

Tuesday: 5-6 miles easy

Wednesday: 7 miles easy

Thursday: 1.5 mi warmup, stretches/drills, repeats of 20m-80m at 90-95% effort, full recovery, stop when your reps are slowing down (or sooner), 3 mi cooldown/easy

Friday: 5-7 miles easy, strides

Saturday: 9-12 mile long run (build up gradually), make it a fast finish/progression run if you want

That's about your current mileage, albeit in only 6 runs instead of 8. If you really want to keep the doubles then you can shorten everything a little and then add them, but I don't think you need them. Since you aren't used to so much of the longer, slower stuff you may want to start at even 35 mpw then build up to 40-45 from there. Again see what I said above: be smart, don't listen to strangers on the internet too much, do your own research, and if you think this schedule works for you then use it, but plenty of other letsrunners can make training plans that might be better for you.

1. The only reason we static stretch before runs is because the girls complain that they are going to get injured if they don't static stretch.

2. My xc coach makes us workout with the football strength and conditioning coach and he makes us do the sprints.

3. My coach likes "hard intervals" year round.

4. Incoming senior and started running as a freshman and started running seriously (going to practice everyday and running year-round) as a sophomore.

didnt take the time to count it all up but this is like 25 mpw isn't it

i'm a freshman in HS (going into xc just like you)

i used to do speed almost every day and i plateau'd like you will. started doing 50 mpw and i went from 5:25 - 4:36 in the 1600, 2:24 to 2:02 in the 800m, and 5k went from 18:10 to 15:43.

widum boise wrote:

didnt take the time to count it all up but this is like 25 mpw isn't it

i'm a freshman in HS (going into xc just like you)

i used to do speed almost every day and i plateau'd like you will. started doing 50 mpw and i went from 5:25 - 4:36 in the 1600, 2:24 to 2:02 in the 800m, and 5k went from 18:10 to 15:43.

45mpw.

My coach says that I won't plateau if I stay hydrated and sleep enough.

This is a lot of speed work for the summer. Your 3200 time is worse than your 800 by a lot so you need to work on endurance. That means mileage. This is a really complex program that focuses too much on speed if you really wanna be a distance runner. If you're serious about xc then for the next month you should maybe be doing speedwork once a week, and the rest being quality mileage. You are definitely going to plateau with this, you don't have a distance base for any of this.

JD345 wrote:

What kind of times does your team run at the beginning of xc/track vs. the end of the season.

The more serious athletes generally run a little faster at the end of the season (not always) mainly due to the weather dropping from 90 to 60 or lower. The athletes that don't run much over the summer obviosuly improve drastically as the season progresses.

EvanM wrote:

NotMalmo wrote:

Read Summer of Malmo and just follow it as well as you can. Summer training should be based on feel and effort most days.

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/rtp3.htm

Seems like a lot of miles. My coach says that I should stick with his plan.

Of course your coach is going to say his way is the best. That does not however mean his way is the best