AA Philosophy stupid

I have never been to an AA meeting so can't vouch for the program overall. However, some of their principles have proved true. For one, once addiction takes place, the process can only be arrested, not reversed. The reason for this is that the brain will always remember the euphoria of the addictive behavior. Thus a recovering alcoholic can never go back to the casual drinking that he enjoyed before becoming addicted.

Their stuff works.

As an addict in recovery for over 30 years, you haven't an effin clue what you're talking about.

Carry on. We will laugh.

well you seem like a bit of a prick - tell me where I am wrong then instead of just laughing at me.

That's silly - there is no "point" of addiction (yes I get "hitting rock bottom" but that is totally subjective and different for everyone)Tons of guys I knew would have qualified as "alcoholics" in university and are now doing just fine having a casual drink every now and then.

Lucas Tanner wrote:

I have never been to an AA meeting so can't vouch for the program overall. However, some of their principles have proved true. For one, once addiction takes place, the process can only be arrested, not reversed. The reason for this is that the brain will always remember the euphoria of the addictive behavior. Thus a recovering alcoholic can never go back to the casual drinking that he enjoyed before becoming addicted.

I tied one on fairly regularly in college myself. But I could always take it or leave it at the time. Then at age 25 something changed, and it became a struggle not to have several beers or a few glasses of wine every evening. I tried to cut down many times but never successfully for very long. If you think that someone like me can go back to casual drinking you are mistaken.

Da' Nile ain't just a river in Egypt.

What you call denial is actually rational thought, your black and white thinking got you into AA, try some logical conclusions to get yourself out of it, good luck with that!! 😆😆😂😂😂

Well to be honest, (are you 34 years now?) His arguments are quite rational and thought out whereas your response (or reaction) isn't!! I think most people would laugh at someone like you, or maybe not come to think of it (pity is more apt) for staying in/with a cult for sooo long wasting your life. Go off now and pray 🙏 for me like a good little member 😉

Live and let live.

I went deep into the 12 steps, as deep as my personality, previous and contemporaneous learning, and character traits would allow.

Yes, anyone could find some philosophical problems including some cult-like notions. I dabbled longer than I was all-in due to skepticism and disbelief "after investigation". There is a saying in AA that those who don't get all in as devotees into this trap of "contempt prior to investigation", would be a philosophical problem, but many people shouldn't be accused of that just because they find AA lacking. Then, if you go out and live successfully without severe alcohol issues or without AA you will be told you never were a real addict in the first place, or worse they say, "we will be hereafter you go and screw your life up", "hit your bottom" or "rock bottom as I did". Then to protect themselves they say, if you can have a decent life without AA then you never really were an "alcoholic" or "one of us" Can't get much more self-serving than that. If you want to take the approach that you are the problem, not the alcohol, I think that will work, if

it's taken deep enough into your core belief for long enough. Sure some people go as just problem drinkers. My binges and other tragedies match a pretty good "drunk-a-log".

Other philosophical issues. Avoid controversy, you are like a man with no arms and no legs and will never be able to

stay sober if you don't say 1000 serenity prayers and be weak. It doesn't work and you end up with dry drunks who screw themselves and others up precisely because they never learn to move in, around, through, controversy in a functional pattern that humans need.

My dad died of drinking when he was 46 that will be the biggest contributing factor to early deaths for all my brothers,

My sisters have been obese and had bulimia. I am not different from the ones who stayed in the 12 steps.

The turn-off with AA is the Steps and related expectations such as regularl participation in so-called meetings. I think it's cool if a few people who've struggled with alcohol abuse occassionally meet up for dinner and talk about how they're doing - a better version of an AA meeting. Especially if they feel there's the support and transparency to be honest and say something like

"You know, I did cave and drink with friends last night. I wish I didn't because hangovers have been getting worse as I get older. Fortunately, I didn't black out and, to be honest, I had a lot of fun and built some solid rapport with new acquaintences. It could've been worse. It was a learning experience. I've drank only 5 this year, an improvement. Still, I'd like to get to the point where I can avoid alcohol completely. I have noticed that if I buy a glass of the most expensive red wine on the menu, I actually enjoy the taste and get a purer-feeling buzz. I might make it a goal to drink only at restaurants before food arrives."

AA is too rigid, too black-and-white, to allow such dialouge.

james mcgee wrote:

well you seem like a bit of a prick - tell me where I am wrong then instead of just laughing at me.

"Hey! You're calling out my BS, you prick!"

I went for about ten years and then realized that I no longer had the obsession to drink, and no longer needed meetings. It seemed to me that the guys who continued to go long into sobriety use meetings as their social outlet, and fair play to them, Live and Let Live. What gets under my skin is these guys who tell me I’m backsliding and heading for a drink because I’ve had enough after ten years of the same old stories by the same ten guys.

Cool well it sounds like you have it figured out, get out there and start a private practice for addicts and you'll be rolling in it with your own brilliant philosophy you just magnificently thought up all on your own

AA is not the only game in town for alcohol abstinence. There's many more options now.

SMART recovery is based on cognitive and dialectical behavioral therapy and offers a more rational approach to recovery.

Refuge recovery offers a different take on 12 steps. It is a Buddhist approach.

Russel Brand did a book on the 12 steps and there are groups that use his take rather than the original.

Many municipalities sponsor recovery communities that are multi-pathway. There are often gatherings and activities etc

If you're looking for an excuse to keep drinking because you don't like AA, rock on. If you want to explore alternatives, they're out there.

AA is a relic of a bygone culture when drinking and addiction were seen as "sinful" behaviors, and the idea of dealing with it in a religious context caught on easily. Courts forcing people into it helped that along.

Its method is a classic substitution - i.e. trade an addiction for a not-as-bad addiction. It can be effective, if your bar is so low that you're willing to enter a lifelong religious delusion and forever believe yourself helpless without the rituals provided by your new social group. That's the new addiction.

Typically those who choose this are offended and dissonant any time someone asserts that you actually can overcome addiction without any of that stuff, and without being a relapse waiting to happen the rest of your life. All you have to do is believe in and take full responsibility for yourself. This is not faith! Just self awareness. Pull yourself together and do it, or don't, it's up to you, anything else is an illusion. Lose the confusion.

You really don’t understand AA at all.

No, he nailed it pretty good. That is pretty much what an AA addict stands for.