It should be an interesting book when it is all done.
I think Matt is in his mid 40s. Does anyone know his PRs?
It should be an interesting book when it is all done.
I think Matt is in his mid 40s. Does anyone know his PRs?
from memory I think he ran a the marathon in the low 2:40s.
To be honest, I find Fitzgerald to be a hack. This whole experience seems to be a waste of time, too, he's not going to be training "as a pro". Is he gonna do 130 mile weeks? During his 16 week buildup?
Look, I got no problem with a runners world writer hanging out with a pro group for an article. But don't pretend to do something you're not. You're not putting in double days, you're not trying to fit in 100+ mile weeks, staking your career on a race 5-6 months down the road that may or may not even happen because of injury or because the race goes shitty/not according to plan. All he's gonna do is a little bit bigger of a buildup than usual. To call it "training like a pro" is an insult
No wrote:
To be honest, I find Fitzgerald to be a hack. This whole experience seems to be a waste of time, too, he's not going to be training "as a pro". Is he gonna do 130 mile weeks? During his 16 week buildup?
Look, I got no problem with a runners world writer hanging out with a pro group for an article. But don't pretend to do something you're not. You're not putting in double days, you're not trying to fit in 100+ mile weeks, staking your career on a race 5-6 months down the road that may or may not even happen because of injury or because the race goes shitty/not according to plan. All he's gonna do is a little bit bigger of a buildup than usual. To call it "training like a pro" is an insult
I've read a couple of his books and I like him more than you do, but that's a pretty fair assessment.
A bunch of people working together to sell stuff, build brands, with a guy running a pretty ordinary marathon in there somewhere.
No wrote:
To be honest, I find Fitzgerald to be a hack. This whole experience seems to be a waste of time, too, he's not going to be training "as a pro". Is he gonna do 130 mile weeks? During his 16 week buildup?
Look, I got no problem with a runners world writer hanging out with a pro group for an article. But don't pretend to do something you're not. You're not putting in double days, you're not trying to fit in 100+ mile weeks, staking your career on a race 5-6 months down the road that may or may not even happen because of injury or because the race goes shitty/not according to plan. All he's gonna do is a little bit bigger of a buildup than usual. To call it "training like a pro" is an insult
Think of something better and do it.
Kenny Moore used to write SI articles where he'd fly to visit someone like Seb Coe, try to run with them and get dropped on in a tempo run and Moore had been a 2:11 marathoner. Even a retired elite runner can't hang with active athletes so there's no way Fitzgerald can do it but why not do what he can? The closer he can get to the full experience, the better he'll be able to understand it and write it.
No wrote:
To be honest, I find Fitzgerald to be a hack. This whole experience seems to be a waste of time, too, he's not going to be training "as a pro". Is he gonna do 130 mile weeks? During his 16 week buildup?
Look, I got no problem with a runners world writer hanging out with a pro group for an article. But don't pretend to do something you're not. You're not putting in double days, you're not trying to fit in 100+ mile weeks, staking your career on a race 5-6 months down the road that may or may not even happen because of injury or because the race goes shitty/not according to plan. All he's gonna do is a little bit bigger of a buildup than usual. To call it "training like a pro" is an insult
Why would he not necessarily be doing all of it? The thing with running is that there is considerable training overlap across a wide range of abilities.
Many elite males will run with elite females and often it's the men who complain about efforts and speeds even though they may be considerably faster in racing.
3hr-marathoner wrote:
Kenny Moore used to write SI articles where he'd fly to visit someone like Seb Coe, try to run with them and get dropped on in a tempo run and Moore had been a 2:11 marathoner. Even a retired elite runner can't hang with active athletes so there's no way Fitzgerald can do it but why not do what he can? The closer he can get to the full experience, the better he'll be able to understand it and write it.
Yeah, except kenny moore ran at oregon and got 4th in the 1972 olympic marathon. They're not even in the same ballpark
I'm going with injured before chicago.... but I hope he stays healthy and kills it. I've followed some of the natz-elite training tips with good success...
I wish him luck! And hope to see him in Chicago!
12 weeks with Natz elite I'd be crippled. I'm 41 I don't think I could run the mileage. I'm lucky I work and can only run 50-60mpw. If I ran much more I wouldn't be able to run...I'd be hurt.
YEAH, BUT wrote:
3hr-marathoner wrote:Kenny Moore used to write SI articles where he'd fly to visit someone like Seb Coe, try to run with them and get dropped on in a tempo run and Moore had been a 2:11 marathoner. Even a retired elite runner can't hang with active athletes so there's no way Fitzgerald can do it but why not do what he can? The closer he can get to the full experience, the better he'll be able to understand it and write it.
Yeah, except kenny moore ran at oregon and got 4th in the 1972 olympic marathon. They're not even in the same ballpark
No argument there. I noted he was a 2:11 marathoner which was smoking back in the early seventies. He's a better writer too. My point was more that no writer can hang with these guys but I don't see the harm in trying.
3hr-marathoner wrote:
YEAH, BUT wrote:Yeah, except kenny moore ran at oregon and got 4th in the 1972 olympic marathon. They're not even in the same ballpark
No argument there. I noted he was a 2:11 marathoner which was smoking back in the early seventies. He's a better writer too. My point was more that no writer can hang with these guys but I don't see the harm in trying.
You need to go by what the runner currently is Moore was struggling to do a 5:30 pace for 15 miles with Coe. What was Moore running in races at that point?
Did you follow the link? his last week was 60 miles at sea level. So now he's gonna do possibly 2x that, at a faster pace, with no cross training day, at altitude?
The problem I have with fitzgerald is not his writing (although he did get sued for his portrayal of dave scott and mark allen in Iron War), but how, from my perspective, he portrays himself as some sort of expert on running (or swimming, or cycling), when he doesn't have the credentials to back it up. He doesn't have an advanced degree in physiology or nutrition, hasn't coached any programs, nor had any athletes that show his success as a coach. Can he help Johnny Hobbyjogger get through his first marathon? Sure, but so can the Hal Higdon training plan and the latter is free.
The point is, sure, you have 20 years of experience researching and writing about running, triathlon, nutrition, etc. But if you can't put it all together and use it to coach someone (or yourself) to be a superstar, then why should anyone listen to you? Any high schooler/college kid can do a research project on macronutrients and to my knowledge, Messr. Fitzgerald has done nothing to prove that his advice is worth taking.
What infuriates me about this whole project is that it seems he will, once again, pretend to be able to talk from a position of authority because he spent 12 weeks at altitude with people doing 2x the mileage and pretend to be able to put their life ambition and deepest desires into words (when far better candidates have tried and mostly succeeded). In short, he will wax poetic and coin more phrases to describe the undescribeable
He should of trained with Nick Symmonds. There are plenty of hobby joggers that can handle his workload and training pace.
Did you follow the link? his last week was 60 miles at sea level. So now he's gonna do possibly 2x that, at a faster pace, with no cross training day, at altitude?
The problem I have with fitzgerald is not his writing (although he did get sued for his portrayal of dave scott and mark allen in Iron War), but how, from my perspective, he portrays himself as some sort of expert on running (or swimming, or cycling), when he doesn't have the credentials to back it up. He doesn't have an advanced degree in physiology or nutrition, hasn't coached any programs, nor had any athletes that show his success as a coach. Can he help Johnny Hobbyjogger get through his first marathon? Sure, but so can the Hal Higdon training plan and the latter is free.
The point is, sure, you have 20 years of experience researching and writing about running, triathlon, nutrition, etc. But if you can't put it all together and use it to coach someone (or yourself) to be a superstar, then why should anyone listen to you? Any high schooler/college kid can do a research project on macronutrients and to my knowledge, Messr. Fitzgerald has done nothing to prove that his advice is worth taking.
What infuriates me about this whole project is that it seems he will, once again, pretend to be able to talk from a position of authority because he spent 12 weeks at altitude with people doing 2x the mileage and pretend to be able to put their life ambition and deepest desires into words (when far better candidates have tried and mostly succeeded). In short, he will wax poetic and coin more phrases to describe the undescribeable
Did you follow the link? his last week was 60 miles at sea level. So now he's gonna do possibly 2x that, at a faster pace, with no cross training day, at altitude?
The problem I have with fitzgerald is not his writing (although he did get sued for his portrayal of dave scott and mark allen in Iron War), but how, from my perspective, he portrays himself as some sort of expert on running (or swimming, or cycling), when he doesn't have the credentials to back it up. He doesn't have an advanced degree in physiology or nutrition, hasn't coached any programs, nor had any athletes that show his success as a coach. Can he help Johnny Hobbyjogger get through his first marathon? Sure, but so can the Hal Higdon training plan and the latter is free.
The point is, sure, you have 20 years of experience researching and writing about running, triathlon, nutrition, etc. But if you can't put it all together and use it to coach someone (or yourself) to be a superstar, then why should anyone listen to you? Any high schooler/college kid can do a research project on macronutrients and to my knowledge, Messr. Fitzgerald has done nothing to prove that his advice is worth taking.
What infuriates me about this whole project is that it seems he will, once again, pretend to be able to talk from a position of authority because he spent 12 weeks at altitude with people doing 2x the mileage and pretend to be able to put their life ambition and deepest desires into words (when far better candidates have tried and mostly succeeded). In short, he will wax poetic and coin more phrases to describe the undescribeable
sorry for multiple posts, browser fvcking sucks
no wrote:
The problem I have with fitzgerald is not his writing (although he did get sued for his portrayal of dave scott and mark allen in Iron War), but how, from my perspective, he portrays himself as some sort of expert on running (or swimming, or cycling), when he doesn't have the credentials to back it up.
...In short, he will wax poetic and coin more phrases to describe the undescribeable
I like his books a lot and enjoy his writing. That being said, he is kinda a d!ck and pretty full of himself. In his books he always takes cheap shots at individuals or camps he doesn't like and he always goes on rabbit trails about how wonderful he is. But he is transparent about using his writing to pay for fun travel so those rabbit trails are necessary so he can deduct those trips.
He's very prolific, which also means that much of his writing overlaps and is redundant, so you don't need to buy every book to read all he has to say. I like that he injects himself into what he's writing about even if his self-focus is annoying at times. I find him to be pretty grounded in science and in reality and doesn't chase fads or pseudoscience. I don't always agree with where he comes down on stuff and when he takes a position he implies more certainty that is justified, but it's pretty well reasoned.
I expect this new project to be interesting and informative. Ya, he'll likely overstate how "like" his training is to the pros, but I'll read it.
You have to accept that we are not Fitzgerald's intended audience. We're basically him. He teaches us nothing new we couldn't find out ourselves by reading or contacting his same sources. Him going to a camp would be like one of us going to a camp. Rather than be bitter that he's making a living doing what we might have liked to do while having zero qualifications more than we have, you might find it more productive to realize he's appealing to casuals. Good for him.
I think the NAZ Elite marathon plan scales well with a 2Q model, too. I'll be curious to see how Ben adapts the "stock" plan they more or less have been using for their elites.