Is Said Aouita the greatest 800m to 10000m runner ever?

smile wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

Trackbot, this encounter NEVER happened.

It's on alltime-athletics, but I agree they never raced each other. Perhaps they raced the same event in two different races at the same meet.

well,. wrote:

smile wrote:

It's on alltime-athletics, but I agree they never raced each other. Perhaps they raced the same event in two different races at the same meet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_fkLP7U4c

They have both the 1500m and mile in Zurich in 1985?

Aouita dodged Coe in the 1500m in Zurich both in 84 and 85, even though Coe was below his best in 85 after back problems and missed training.

Both nights Aouita ran the mile instead, labouring to victory over John Walker (9 years past his best) in 84 and winning much more impressively in 85. Coe was in blistering form in 84 and would surely have been the first man under 3:30 with any decent sort of pacing. In 85 he came second, still running a very fast time despite being some way below his best.

How was Aouita's record against Cram in the 1500m/mile races?

Coevett wrote:

Aouita dodged Coe in the 1500m in Zurich both in 84 and 85, even though Coe was below his best in 85 after back problems and missed training.

Both nights Aouita ran the mile instead, labouring to victory over John Walker (9 years past his best) in 84 and winning much more impressively in 85. Coe was in blistering form in 84 and would surely have been the first man under 3:30 with any decent sort of pacing. In 85 he came second, still running a very fast time despite being some way below his best.

Seydoux wrote:

How was Aouita's record against Cram in the 1500m/mile races?

Coevett wrote:

Aouita dodged Coe in the 1500m in Zurich both in 84 and 85, even though Coe was below his best in 85 after back problems and missed training.

Both nights Aouita ran the mile instead, labouring to victory over John Walker (9 years past his best) in 84 and winning much more impressively in 85. Coe was in blistering form in 84 and would surely have been the first man under 3:30 with any decent sort of pacing. In 85 he came second, still running a very fast time despite being some way below his best.

Aouita beat him in 84 post LA when Cram fell over, and in 88 in an 800m semi I think. Cram beat him in that famous race in Nice, as well as Helsinki. So although the record might be 2-2, a fit Cram beat a fit Aouita 2/2, Also, remember that although the same age, Cram was appearing in an Olympic Final in 1980 and winning major championships by 1982, whereas Aouita was winning the 'Islamic Games' in 1980, and then spending 81 and 82 in the B-races on the European circuit before getting his Italian doctor.

Aouita's famous 151 victories out of 155 (or whatever) between 83 and 88 was achieved largely because he was ducking his main rivals (and avoiding injury) - easy to do when you can run 800 to 10000.

*sorry - didn't see your question was for the 1500/Mile. Aouita only beat Cram once over 1500/Mile in a meaningless race in which Cram fell over, so shouldn't count. It was post LA and even Deano said recently that Cram would have struggled to beat Aouita, but as the YouTube video of Aouita pipping John Walker in Zurich 84 shows, he wasn't in the 1500m form in 84 he was in 85, although he did set the fastest time of the year (as he did in 83 which didn't stop him being thrashed by Cram in Helsinki).

Thanks Coevett.I wonder if the numerous claims on this forum of Aouita using performance enhancing drugs has ever been substantiated?

Coevett wrote:

*sorry - didn't see your question was for the 1500/Mile. Aouita only beat Cram once over 1500/Mile in a meaningless race in which Cram fell over, so shouldn't count. It was post LA and even Deano said recently that Cram would have struggled to beat Aouita, but as the YouTube video of Aouita pipping John Walker in Zurich 84 shows, he wasn't in the 1500m form in 84 he was in 85, although he did set the fastest time of the year (as he did in 83 which didn't stop him being thrashed by Cram in Helsinki).

Umm...ever heard of Jordan Hasay??

Yes, Aouita is the greatest 800 to 10,000m runner ever and I don't think I will live to see someone better.

But the best chance is Mo Farah.

Better at 10,000

No world record in the 5000 but a faster PR and more titles.

No WR in the 1500 but a faster PR.

What could Farah do in the 800?

Surley 1:44. Probably 1:43.

Could he medal like Aouita did?

We'll never know.

That's the thing with Aouita.

We don't have wonder what he could have done at a distance. He showed us.

What can Makhloufi do in the 10,000?

Star wrote:

What could Farah do in the 800?

Surley 1:44. Probably 1:43.

Could he medal like Aouita did?

We'll never know.

That's the thing with Aouita.

We don't have wonder what he could have done at a distance. He showed us.

What can Makhloufi do in the 10,000?

Ian Stewart claims that he saw Mo Farah run a 1:45 time trial for 800m but this would be hand timed. Given he is slightly faster over 1500m than Nick Willis who ran 1:45 twice this time sounds very plausible.

Medal over 800m, no. But 1500m perhaps, and he is quicker over the marathon than Rupp.

Star wrote:

Yes, Aouita is the greatest 800 to 10,000m runner ever and I don't think I will live to see someone better.

But the best chance is Mo Farah.

Better at 10,000

No world record in the 5000 but a faster PR and more titles.

No WR in the 1500 but a faster PR.

What could Farah do in the 800?

Surley 1:44. Probably 1:43.

Could he medal like Aouita did?

We'll never know.

That's the thing with Aouita.

We don't have wonder what he could have done at a distance. He showed us.

What can Makhloufi do in the 10,000?

Doesn´t Makh have too much muscle to run long distance?

Aouita was rather fortunate.

He shaved the world records in the 1500 and 5000m. The 5000m was particularly weak and Aouita, supposedly one of the greatest ever 5000m runners only broke it by two seconds. If Moorcroft had been pacing on his WR night he would have ran at least 12:57. If Walker, Coe, Ovett, or Cram had moved up to 5000m in their prime they would have ran 12:55 or better.

Coe, Ovett, and Cram could all have done what Aouita had done, especially if they had been taking whatever he was.

Imagine if Cram had decided after the World Championship 83 - 'well the way Ovett was closing on me in the home straight just shows a fit and healthy Coe/Ovett are always going to be better than me. I've won the 1500m world championship gold, now I'll move up to 5000m in LA and become the greatest mid-long-distance runner in history with an easy gold (only John Walker to beat a decade past his best).

Most people would have called Cram a coward, yet we call Aouita the greatest most fearless mid/distance runner in history.

Cram ran a 13:24 when he was a burnt out injury wreck and couldn't even run 3:35 for the 1500m anymore. With serious training in 83/84 he could have been as fast as Aouita and still dropped down to the 1500m and threatened the WR there. Who knows what Coe and Ovett could have been capable of? At one point Ovett was probably capable of attacking the British record from 400m to the half-marathon. He ran a 13:20 in his first serious 5000m race when having just moved up to the 1500m from the 400/800m. Aouita was running much slower 5k times when he decided to move up seriously to the 5000m.

An Extra Litre of Blood wrote:

Star wrote:

What could Farah do in the 800?

Surley 1:44. Probably 1:43.

Could he medal like Aouita did?

We'll never know.

That's the thing with Aouita.

We don't have wonder what he could have done at a distance. He showed us.

What can Makhloufi do in the 10,000?

Ian Stewart claims that he saw Mo Farah run a 1:45 time trial for 800m but this would be hand timed. Given he is slightly faster over 1500m than Nick Willis who ran 1:45 twice this time sounds very plausible.

Medal over 800m, no. But 1500m perhaps, and he is quicker over the marathon than Rupp.

Farah can barely break 13 seconds for the 100m from the blocks. He's capable of a 50 second 400m obviously but to run 1:43 would require almost running flat out for two laps.

Yes, Aouita had a fine set of PBs at 800 - 10000, especially since he couldn't crack 1:50/3:40/13:50 until the age of 23 and enlisting an Italian doctor, but how many other great athletes in history attempted that?

Ovett couldn't give a hoot about WRs or PBs until he was forced to by Andy Norman in order to build the rivalry with Coe. Before 79 Ovett's pb for the 1500m was still 3:33 or something yet he was clearly capable of 3:29 or even better. You could extrapolate that from his racing performances in 77 and 78 and it was proven later when he ran 3:30 in a terribly windy day in 83 when past his best and coming back from injury. In 77 and 78 he ran 13:20 for the 5000m pushing Yifter the best in the world, broke the two mile WR (his first WR!) in thrashing Henry Rono who was having an incredible season smashing record after record himself. In 78 Ovett was likely in close to sub 13 second shape without doing any serious training for the 5000m. Aouita finally ran 12:58 in 87 after four seasons of specializing in the 5000m and at his very peak.

Ovett's potential was probably better than Aouita from 400m to 5000m. Probably at 10000m too if it wasn't the fact he didn't like solo racing. Ovett's build was also made for the steeplechase, so he would likely have thrashed Aouita there too judging by the way the latter needed hospital treatment after a minor collision with Elliot in the 800m Seoul final.

Star wrote:

Yes, Aouita is the greatest 800 to 10,000m runner ever and I don't think I will live to see someone better.

But the best chance is Mo Farah.

Better at 10,000

No world record in the 5000 but a faster PR and more titles.

No WR in the 1500 but a faster PR.

What could Farah do in the 800?

Surley 1:44. Probably 1:43.

Could he medal like Aouita did?

We'll never know.

That's the thing with Aouita.

We don't have wonder what he could have done at a distance. He showed us.

What can Makhloufi do in the 10,000?

I seriously doubt that Farah could break 1:45 for 800m. His best 400m I've read is about 49, so to run 2 laps only 3.5 secs slower than his 400 best, is a tall order.

Aouita was capable of 1:42 high/ 1:43 flat for 800m

And at his peak, he was capable of beating a peak Farah over 1500m, and runnng faster than Farah's pb. After about 3000m, then I think the pendulum swings back to Farah.

But for me, the deciding factor is that o e broke multiple world

Records, whereas the other has broken just one obscure mark indoors. Having said that, of course, I do think all of the current records Farah is competing against, we're almost certainly set with EPO. So, IF Farah is clean, it makes it almost impossible for him to approach those times.

What is Farah's PB in the 3000m?

Seydoux wrote:

What is Farah's PB in the 3000m?

7:32.62.

Why didn't Coe move up to the 5000m after 1984?

He could have done well in the 1988 Olympics.

Avermaet wrote:

Why didn't Coe move up to the 5000m after 1984?

He could have done well in the 1988 Olympics.

He did intend to but injured his back in the summer of 85. After that he gave up the idea but not exactly at what point.