Grant Fisher: "everyone thinks they can kick"

The truth bites.

How many known kickers were in the race? 3 or 4. The rest made a big mistake.

Beardingus wrote:

My favorite interview from this weekend was after the 5k when Fisher made an inadvertent comment about everyone in the field taking it out so slow. He absolutely lambasted all you kids who were still raving about Justin Knight's kick at the Wisconsin Invite from last fall. This is what track speed looks like, guys!

After rolling my ankle, getting hissed at by multiple protective mother geese, attacked by flies and almost hit by very light residential traffic, I realized this morning that xc and trail running can be very different from track.

Fitness is what gives you the best kick.

Anyone in a race that can't kick surely is a sitting duck if they try to push the pace early.

Star wrote:

Fitness is what gives you the best kick.

Anyone in a race that can't kick surely is a sitting duck if they try to push the pace early.

Yeah, not really.

I loved Grant Fisher's interview too. Faced with a totally lame question to the effect of "how hard was it to be so disciplined and wait until the final lap to kick?", he truthfully answered it wasn't hard at all, since he and everyone else in the field believe they can win in a sprint finish. I've always wondered why the guys who can't kick always play into the hands of the guys who can. Apparently it's all a matter of unjustified hubris.

amkelley wrote:

I loved Grant Fisher's interview too. Faced with a totally lame question to the effect of "how hard was it to be so disciplined and wait until the final lap to kick?", he truthfully answered it wasn't hard at all, since he and everyone else in the field believe they can win in a sprint finish. I've always wondered why the guys who can't kick always play into the hands of the guys who can. Apparently it's all a matter of unjustified hubris.

Agreed. I have huge respect for Justyn Knight, but he admitted to not getting the position he wanted which ultimately altered his kick finish. Grant was better positioned and made sure to capitalize on it. Grant knew he had decent kickers not far behind him and since they all coasted the 4400m they all had enough spark to sit and kick by a lot. Props to Grant not letting himself getting out of position or out kicked. Justyn was upset for sure in his interview, but knew it was a tactical mistake on his part for both not picking a more faster pace and to not position himself better in the bell lap.

And that's racing folks.

That is why it is important to learn how to race. Rather than jumping into the pro ranks out of high school and getting dragged along to fast times and finishing eight, better to make mistakes that cost you the race in college, learn from those mistakes and become a better racer

to your points wrote:

Star wrote:

Fitness is what gives you the best kick.

Anyone in a race that can't kick surely is a sitting duck if they try to push the pace early.

Yeah, not really.

Yeah, really. Back of the packers are not going to win a race by "taking it out hard" or whatever delusional tactic you have in mind.

Speaker of hard truths wrote:

to your points wrote:

Yeah, not really.

Yeah, really. Back of the packers are not going to win a race by "taking it out hard" or whatever delusional tactic you have in mind.

No one is saying that a back of the packer will win a race by taking it out hard. You are the one who is assuming that everyone who lacks a kick is necessarily a back of the packer. The rest of us understand that a runner can be capable of running fast times even if they don't have a great kick.

And that's racing wrote:

And that's racing folks.

That is why it is important to learn how to race. Rather than jumping into the pro ranks out of high school and getting dragged along to fast times and finishing eight, better to make mistakes that cost you the race in college, learn from those mistakes and become a better racer

Well put.

This is a common misconception. It's not that "everyone thinks he can kick". That's ridiculous. The top guys can kick, and they don't want to lead because they want to be the guy who gets to draft and kick from behind. The mid and botttom tier guys don't push it because they can't run away from the top guys (no matter the pace) and they have a marginally better chance to do well if they just stay in the pack. Think about it-it would take a lot of balls for a 13:50 guy to push the pace on a bunch of 13:20-30 guys, and he would end up getting trashed anyway.

“The problem with big kickers is they often lose to other big kickers.” - Coach Groves, PSU

Speaker of hard truths wrote:

to your points wrote:

Yeah, not really.

Yeah, really. Back of the packers are not going to win a race by "taking it out hard" or whatever delusional tactic you have in mind.

Yeah, you took things to extremes and forgot about the fast guys with no kick.

Like John Ngugi and Carlos Lopes. Ever hear of them?

conflated ideas wrote:

Speaker of hard truths wrote:

Yeah, really. Back of the packers are not going to win a race by "taking it out hard" or whatever delusional tactic you have in mind.

No one is saying that a back of the packer will win a race by taking it out hard. You are the one who is assuming that everyone who lacks a kick is necessarily a back of the packer. The rest of us understand that a runner can be capable of running fast times even if they don't have a great kick.

Anyone here capable of fast times will have a kick in a slow race. So yes, those lacking a kick are back of the packers. There are no exceptions, in this particular race anyway.

to your points wrote:

Speaker of hard truths wrote:

Yeah, really. Back of the packers are not going to win a race by "taking it out hard" or whatever delusional tactic you have in mind.

Yeah, you took things to extremes and forgot about the fast guys with no kick.

Like John Ngugi and Carlos Lopes. Ever hear of them?

If John Ngugi were in a 14:35 race he would have a kick.

you left out.... wrote:

to your points wrote:

Yeah, you took things to extremes and forgot about the fast guys with no kick.

Like John Ngugi and Carlos Lopes. Ever hear of them?

If John Ngugi were in a 14:35 race he would have a kick.

Not really.

Kip Keino and Carlos Lopes was not in the race so your point is irrelevant. None of the "non-kickers" were going to win the race by taking it out hard, because they did not have the raw fitness, which is exactly why they aren't kickers. It is a necessary but not sufficient condition to having a kick.

Everybody can kick.

The question is: Who has the best kick off of that pace?

The lesser kickers should have pressed the pace.

Cold War Coach wrote:

“The problem with big kickers is they often lose to other big kickers.” - Coach Groves, PSU

Actually my high school coach said the same exact thing years before I ever heard of Harry Groves. In fact that quote which you've attributed to Harry is one I've never heard him say.

It applies to Grant Fisher too. One win makes you the top termite on the mound for a day.