Should Lagat get US Records for Last Year?

It's not so ridiculous. If you are a US citizen, and run a legitimate race in a time faster than any other US citizen has run, and all the drug testing requirements are properly taken care of, why wouldn't it be an American Record? It only matters if you are an American citizen, not whether or not you told told everyone in the country. I'm sure that the American citizen who swore him in as an American is at least one person who knew of his citizen status.

If the record was called "fastest time run while representing the US", then you would have a point. But that means that no one can set an American Record at the Cardinal Invite, US Championships, Olympic Trials, etc. Basically, only the races where a person would wear the US uniform would become the only eligible competitions. After all, in the other meets, you are running for yourself and your sponsor if you have one.

If he was a USATF member I would say sure if not then no. It only matter if he does not best last years times and then it will just add endless pages of cyber noise.

So Khalid Khannouchi should have the Moroccan record in the marathon with US record (old world record)? No.

wejo wrote:

I think this is ridiculous. He wasn't running for the US. He may have been a US citizen but he wasn't running for the US.

Stupidest

Argument

EVER!

Laura Petrie is hot wrote:

It's not so ridiculous. If you are a US citizen, and run a legitimate race in a time faster than any other US citizen has run, and all the drug testing requirements are properly taken care of, why wouldn't it be an American Record? It only matters if you are an American citizen, not whether or not you told told everyone in the country.

They are called ARs (American Records), and thus one should have be an American, something you can only be born, and not a mere "United States citizen." All Americans are US citizens, but not all US citizens are true Americans with full rights (ex. article two of the Constitution). Now the PC crowd will chime in with their spiel about us all being equally American by simple possession citizenship (or, in the case of their beloved illegals, mere residence), blah, blah, but that isn't the true legal reality as of today (ask any of the naturalized Muslim/Arab citizens rotting in Gitmo while being denied the basics of the Bill of Rights).

It kind of doesn't matter about last year. As soon as he runs a 1500 to his ability (assuming he beats Webb) he's going to have the AR.

I think its unfortunate that he didn't choose to run for the U.S. in 2004, but based on the fact that he was a citizen the American Record will become Benard Lagat 3:27.40 in 2004. The better question is what could/should be done to him for not revealing that information and choosing to run for a country (Kenya) he was no longer a citizen?

VIPAM

Nobody has said anything about wejo's last point -- does Felix Sanchez have dual citizenship and national records in two countries?

What I've been wondering is, how could we possibly not have known about this? Did he have to reveal anything about his occupation when he applied for citizenship?

Lagat, if you happen to be reading this, i'm really happy for you, congratulations on obtaining american citizenship.

There are three types of identity. One is obviously citizenship, which is political. The other is cultural and there is also ethnic identity. In some countries, ethnic identity is fairly clear-cut, but in the United States, it is definitely not. We are an amalgam of people from all over the world. Caucasian does not equal American, although maybe it did 120 years ago.

Lagat has lived and trained in America for about 10 years, and his wife is Chinese-Canadian. Who are we to say whether he's "truly" American or not? (For those of you still confused, watch Gangs of New York) He speaks English better than a lot of people in this country and if you didn't know who he was and ran into him on the street, you probably wouldn't think twice.

Anyway, it was kinda shady how he ran for Kenya even though he knew he wasn't a Kenyan citizen, but if USATF deems that the times he ran in the previous year are American Records, then that's their deal. The truth is, Kenya's not mad because they got an extra medal and USATF isn't mad cuz they get a boatload of new records.

What I find most digusting about the situation was the deception involved.

Lagat KNEW he was a US Citizen at the time of the Weltklasse and the Olympics.

Lagat KNEW that he would most likely be kicked out of the Olympics if he told the Kenyan Officials about his taking the oath of US Citizenship.

When I heard about Lagat becoming a US Citizen, I orginally congratulated him and welcomed him to my country.

Now, I am disgusted by the apparent lack of honesty.

Do you need to be drug tested at the event for a record to count? Was Lagat tested at these events?

No AR if there was no testing!

You are an idiot of course lagat was tested at the Olympics, I really hope that for your sake you were just trying to be funny.

If he wouldn't say he was an American citizen, then he shouldn't have the American record.

No

Has USATF so quickly forgotten another of Lagat's ethical breaches, his use of US runner and training mate Seneca Lassiter as a pacer in the World Cup final?

This is not the first time Lagat has conveniently overlooked ethics. He is a chameleon who takes on whatever color best suits his needs.

Remember that, when Lagat's "A" sample was announced, his most vocal supporters built much of their case on Lagat's congeniality and apparent integrity. Well, there is no "B" sample to await on this one, and congeniality is also a conman's greatest asset.

We can love Lagat because he runs fast, but his days of playing the honest guy card are over.

such BS on so many levels

so I suppose that someone who isn't at least 35 years old isn't an "American" yet, just a US citizen. In fact, the term "American" to the rest of the world more or less refers to someone from the Americas, ie from somewhere between Barrow, AK and Tierra del Fuego.

The United States is a nation that recognizes citizenship on the basis of will -- if someone wishes to become a full citizen of the United States then they may do so. The same with countries such as france and the UK. Germany, however, will only recognize citizenship, or the concept of "being German" to those that are born to people who are all ready Germans. The idea is that you either are German or you're not -- you cann't "become" something you weren't when you were born. ONly in very recent times have they even begun to bestow full citizenship to the grandchildren of Turks who were brought over to rebuild the country after WWII and had grown up there their entire lives.

On what spot on the earth you come out of the vagina is far less important than what you want to do with your life. It's ridiculous -- if a person is born in Tiujuana, MX they're never "American" in your book (again, most of the world regards "American" as coming from the Americas, not the US -- check the Olympic rings for hte number of continents). And yet if that same person were to be born 800m to the north, it's a totally different situation.

The United States, above all other nations, is the land of immigrants. Alexander Hamilton, Tom Paine, and even up to the Governator -- all immigrants to the US at some stage during their lives and (politics aside) they are making their impacts.

Just don't go haywire when Article 2 is amended and naturalized citizens become eligible for the Oval Office -- it's only a matter of time.

It would be pretty anti-climactic to award him the AR's a year after the fact, when some of them have stood so long.

Much more exciting to make him "earn" them again in a race sometime this year..

tht guys comments were a little over the top saying all naturalized citizens are not real americans but there is a valid point beneath the layers of crap

I mean, would anyone really feel any sense of national pride if your 1500 record was lowered 2 seconds due to a situation like this, there should be some sort of limit on who can set a national record

my feeling is there should be a required number of years of legal residence and citizenship in the US before your eligible for something like this

im glad lagat became a citizen and will compete for the US and think it will provide him for some great opportunities but I dont feel that the times he ran last year should be counted due to a peace of paper he was not even willing to tell anyone about

being "american" is more than that

I think if he was ineligible to run for Kenya(according to Kenya's standard) they should take away his silver medal. Also he should have the U.S. 1500 record.