How effective is the Nike oregon project?

Anyone know?

So with the testosterone cream,thyroid medications,micro-dosed epo,l-carnatine,asthma medications?

12:36

RejectRunner wrote:

So with the testosterone cream,thyroid medications,micro-dosed epo,l-carnatine,asthma medications?

12:36

So they're doing illegal stuff? Not just really good training. Also I heard that they have a high altitude house?

Metoo wrote:

Like, if Salazar's runners weren't training there would they still run well? If good runners (not super elite, but still talented like collegiate runners and also Jamin and probably other LRC people) trained there how much faster would they get?

I think both Mo and Rupp would have not done as well. Maybe Mo would have run similar times, but it sounds like the training with AlSal made him into a much more monster kicker that simply does not lose.

Kinda wrote:

I think both Mo and Rupp would have not done as well. Maybe Mo would have run similar times, but it sounds like the training with AlSal made him into a much more monster kicker that simply does not lose.

Mo doesn't lose because everyone better than him left the track (other events, retired, injury). If Bekele and Kipchoge were still on the track, Mo would not be winning.

Off the top of my head, the only runners that have had significant improvement under Salazar are Rupp and Hasay. Farah was already a 12:50 guy with a great kick before Salazar. Centro was already approaching 3:30 coming out of college. Cain and Ritz got PRs because they hadn't time trialed under their previous coaches. Neither really improved after joining Salazar. What happened to Cam Levins? He was super exciting out of college, then...?

Jood wrote:

Kinda wrote:

I think both Mo and Rupp would have not done as well. Maybe Mo would have run similar times, but it sounds like the training with AlSal made him into a much more monster kicker that simply does not lose.

Mo doesn't lose because everyone better than him left the track (other events, retired, injury). If Bekele and Kipchoge were still on the track, Mo would not be winning.

Off the top of my head, the only runners that have had significant improvement under Salazar are Rupp and Hasay. Farah was already a 12:50 guy with a great kick before Salazar. Centro was already approaching 3:30 coming out of college. Cain and Ritz got PRs because they hadn't time trialed under their previous coaches. Neither really improved after joining Salazar. What happened to Cam Levins? He was super exciting out of college, then...?

so you think Farah would have won pretty much every single race he entered over the past 5 years, including 4 olympic golds, if he had a different coach? Do you think he'd be willing to take that bet?

Kinda wrote:

so you think Farah would have won pretty much every single race he entered over the past 5 years, including 4 olympic golds, if he had a different coach? Do you think he'd be willing to take that bet?

Fitness-wise, I don't think Salazar really improved Farah that much if at all. Maybe by 1-few seconds for 5000m. Maybe Salazar helped Farah with strategy and tactics, but even that I doubt. Farah had frequently been close to gold/podium before joining Salazar. Like I said, all of the people that usually beat him left the event. Bekele, Sihine, Lagat, Mottram, Teg, Kipchoge, etc.

All that's left now are slow guys, guys who struggle with simple tactics, and guys who have a hard time showing up in shape. His competition is incompetent.

Metoo wrote:

RejectRunner wrote:

So with the testosterone cream,thyroid medications,micro-dosed epo,l-carnatine,asthma medications?

12:36

So they're doing illegal stuff? Not just really good training. Also I heard that they have a high altitude house?

Yeah they are doing illegal stuff but only people here know but luckily WADA doesn't visit letsrun so they never find out....

Shut up you brain-dead moron.

Jood wrote:

Farah was already a 12:50 guy with a great kick before Salazar.

Nope. Farah had great endurance, sub-13 as you say, but no kick before he went to Salazar. He led going into the last lap of the 2009 World Championships 5k, only to get passed by 5 runners. UK Athletics wanted him to go to Salazar because they felt he was underachieving given his natural abilities. He already possessed the talent, but Salazar made him a champion. (With perhaps some illegal aid.)

Metoo wrote:

If good runners (not super elite, but still talented like collegiate runners and also Jamin and probably other LRC people) trained there how much faster would they get?

This has already happened. The first iteration of NOP featured B and C level talent athletes living together in an altitude tent. Dan Browne was probably the best of them. None of them became championship medal contenders. Eventually, Nike/Salazar realized that you needed A level talent to develop championship contenders -- like Rupp and Farah.

Jood wrote:

Kinda wrote:

I think both Mo and Rupp would have not done as well. Maybe Mo would have run similar times, but it sounds like the training with AlSal made him into a much more monster kicker that simply does not lose.

Mo doesn't lose because everyone better than him left the track (other events, retired, injury). If Bekele and Kipchoge were still on the track, Mo would not be winning.

Off the top of my head, the only runners that have had significant improvement under Salazar are Rupp and Hasay. Farah was already a 12:50 guy with a great kick before Salazar. Centro was already approaching 3:30 coming out of college. Cain and Ritz got PRs because they hadn't time trialed under their previous coaches. Neither really improved after joining Salazar. What happened to Cam Levins? He was super exciting out of college, then...?

Rupp has been training with him since he started running basically, so obviously he'd be improving a lot under him...

The only thing Mo has done with Alberto is get better at racing and develop a slightly better kick. There's also no kickers anymore like Lagat, Bekele, Kipchoge to take him down, or even just strong runners to take a race to him like guys tried to do with Bekele.

Thanks everyone for your responses!

Does anyone else have ideas?

If we could get Jamin into the Nike Oregon project do you think he will break 15? Then he could come back to letsrun. I miss Jamin.

Let's review the 2015 WC 10000m.

Rupp: 26:44

Tanui: 26:49

Kamworor: 26:52, world XC champion

Karoki: 26:52

Only a letsrun poster would say that these are not strong runners.

The last 23 laps of the race were run at 26:52 10k pace. The last 5k was 13:20. They took the race to Farah; it just wasn't enough.

Jood wrote:

Fitness-wise, I don't think Salazar really improved Farah that much if at all. Maybe by 1-few seconds for 5000m. Maybe Salazar helped Farah with strategy and tactics, but even that I doubt.

And why exactly do you think this? Seems extremely bizarre, almost is if you were predisposed to thinking a certain way and are working backwards at non-existent evidence to convince yourself of your already-held belief.

Here is the evidence we have:

We see Mo Farah doing good, but not great.

Mo Farah gets Al Sal as his coach

Mo Farah becomes the most winning, dominating long distance runner that we've had in decades. He isn't breaking world records, but is running fast times and literally not losing.

I'd be an idiot if considered the coach a negligible part of this. When an athlete goes from "good" to "the most dominate distance runner in decades" when he changes coaches @ the age of 28, there has got to be a big part in that.