Let me get this straight. USADA thinks the public will/should care that NOP athletes took too many vitamins?

Mr. Vitamins wrote:

Shouldn't​ doping involve dope?

Every NOP runner who allows Salazar to give them 'whatever' is a DOPE.

Carnitine is a joke. There are studies showing both beneficial and ill effects on athletic performance. It is likely no better than placebo.

Another NOP denial thread?

How many more ways can you try to confuse the fact Salazar and Brown were running uncontrolled experiments on humans?

GNC needs to provide intravenous doping service.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Another NOP denial thread?

How many more ways can you try to confuse the fact Salazar and Brown were running uncontrolled experiments on humans?

GNC needs to provide intravenous doping service.

It is disappointing that comments like these are surprisingly common in a country where due process and individual liberties are raised up as high virtues. It bears repeating that strong standards of proof must be met before a man and his group are convicted. Calling those who support such standards and individual liberties Nike shills or NOP deniers is nothing more than ad hominem and lazy rabble-type argumentation. Put up definitive evidence - not circumstantial by parties with ulterior motives - and I will be the first to support the case against Salazar/NOP.

Countdown to being called a Nike shill...

RunSprintRun wrote:

I AM a Nike shill...

^So obvious.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Another NOP denial thread?

How many more ways can you try to confuse the fact Salazar and Brown were running uncontrolled experiments on humans?

GNC needs to provide intravenous doping service.

If you are going to characterize what they are doing as "experiments" (which is a stretch...it really seems to be more trial and error than any kind of true experimental model), then it's not really "uncontrolled." Individuals act as their own control, as pre-use metrics can be compared to post-use.

Anyway, isn't just about everything that improves running performance arrived at in a similar manner? When people wanted to see if the body could handle high mileage training, they didn't do a controlled experiment. They just tried it and decided they liked it.

Whether the particular products/doses/methods used by NOP broke the rules is a valid discussion. That they were "running uncontrolled experiments" is not. Controlled experiments have never been required or expected of runners when making training or diet decisions.

Everything in that report of was circumstantial.

They think the public should care that NOP broke anti-doping rules. I, as part of the public, do care.

Nike Marketing Team wrote:

Everything in that report of was circumstantial.

FYI: Every claim made by marketing departments is circumstantial.

sleazazar wrote:

They think the public should care that NOP broke anti-doping rules. I, as part of the public, do care.

I'm confused by your post. They didn't break any rules, right? They just pushed the envelope. If the USADA doesn't like what NOP is doing, why don't they just change their rules? Serious question.

fisky wrote:

sleazazar wrote:

They think the public should care that NOP broke anti-doping rules. I, as part of the public, do care.

I'm confused by your post. They didn't break any rules, right? They just pushed the envelope. If the USADA doesn't like what NOP is doing, why don't they just change their rules? Serious question.

Wrong. I fully believe they broke rules.

sleazazar wrote:

fisky wrote:

I'm confused by your post. They didn't break any rules, right? They just pushed the envelope. If the USADA doesn't like what NOP is doing, why don't they just change their rules? Serious question.

Wrong. I fully believe they broke rules.

The USADA's envelope is not the super-stretchy one NOP is trying to use. Salazar is 100% responsible for enveloping athletes in his stretchy envelope.

RunSprintRun wrote:

It is disappointing that comments like these are surprisingly common in a country where due process and individual liberties are raised up as high virtues. It bears repeating that strong standards of proof must be met before a man and his group are convicted. Calling those who support such standards and individual liberties Nike shills or NOP deniers is nothing more than ad hominem and lazy rabble-type argumentation. Put up definitive evidence - not circumstantial by parties with ulterior motives - and I will be the first to support the case against Salazar/NOP.

Noble sentiments, but this isn't a court of law. This is the court of public opinion.

Let me get this straight. USADA thinks the public will/should care that NOP athletes took too many vitamins?

I agree. These NOP athletes apparently took WAY too many Flintstones chewables. Not a good example for the nation's toddlers.

Mr. Vitamins wrote:

It really seems like USADA did not have the goods on NOP (testosterone or EPO) so they are trying to grasp at anything they can.

Do they realize that, because of their "leak", 64% of all high school runners are now going to run out to GNC and buy Vitamin D and L-Carnitine?

Shouldn't​ doping involve dope?

Not just HS students. I'm looking into putting a plan together for myself. If the plan works I'll combine the ingredients into a "sports performance boost" package, for sale over the internet and radio stations. There will be an 800 number too. I'll put all the money I am making from being a professional bib mule into it.

Mr. Vitamins wrote:

It really seems like USADA did not have the goods on NOP (testosterone or EPO) so they are trying to grasp at anything they can.

Do they realize that, because of their "leak", 64% of all high school runners are now going to run out to GNC and buy Vitamin D and L-Carnitine?

Shouldn't​ doping involve dope?

No. They broke rules. They administered doses of a legal substance beyond the legal limits, and they are also guilty of coercion and operating an abusive program.

Alcohol is legal in this country, but if you are driving while under the influence of alcohol beyond the legal limits, then that is an offense! That is essentially what the NOP was doing, since the athletes performed based off of the illegal doses that were given to them. .....So NOP did more than bend the rules. They broke them.

The NOP threatened athletes with contract and program expulsion if they refused to take substances that they were advised to take. They also fabricated the purpose and necessity of certain substances to get athletes to take them.

And the fact that NOP was basically experimenting on athletes by giving the athletes medicine that their bodies didn't need, the athletes' mental and physical health were put at risk.

If I were one of the athletes, I would sue the fock out of them, and reveal my medical records as proof. I would have everything documented.....because every last one of those athletes was victimized.

The NOP had/has one focus and one focus only, and that was/is to raise the T-levels of the athletes to give them an advantage on the track and roads....