Veteran big game hunter dies after elephant, felled by gunfire, collapses on him

for realzie wrote:

Isjs wrote:

I do research in a related field. I am familiar with this type of stuff.

stop it.

Stop what? I'm open to possibly stopping, but you'll at least have to be specific about what you want me to stop.

kangaroomie wrote:

Isjs wrote:

I'm open to being wrong, but you'll have to use actual proof not just capital letters.

I like this guy, Isjs!

The manly man, I find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species. It's already difficult enough to compare the different types of intelligences between humans, now you're moving to new species?

Either way, the intelligence of a being should not determine the value of their lives.

Would you have a difficult time saying that bonobos are smarter than clams? If so that is truly a sad testament to your own intelligence. If not then you should probably "find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species."

Ironical wrote:

Not at all. I quoted you directly.

In any case, you answered your own question, why it your comparison false? By your own admission, it seems, licensing hunters is not like "sacrificing 1 woman to be raped." The two initial postulates are not similar, therefore your analogy fails.

You are quite disingenuous by the way.

You did not quote me directly. You are lying. You said that I equated rape with killing an elephant. Nowhere is there a direct quote of me saying that.

The analogy is comparable. I admitted nothing. You are once again making up things that I never said. I never said licensing hunters is like sacrificing 1 woman to be raped.

I'm not disingenuous. You just either have very poor reading comprehension or you are a liar.

This Manly Man wrote:

Thank you for sharing that you do research in a related field. My grandmother used to make pancakes out of acorns.

Now, I still maintain that capital letters are the most convincing argument in any online debate (well, maybe emojis, but I have not mastered those). But the simple FACT is that you have no idea about my "reading of this material" so your statement is one of pure ignorance.

Nice try though.

What does your grandmother's acorn recipe have to do with any of this discussion?

Your fact is completely wrong. You just presented a bunch of research material in order to support your argument. That means the ACTUAL fact is that I do have an idea about your reading of the material. Why else did you post that material if it did not represent your reading of that material? Why else would you have posted it?

This Manly Man wrote:

Would you have a difficult time saying that bonobos are smarter than clams? If so that is truly a sad testament to your own intelligence. If not then you should probably "find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species."

Now you are moving goalposts. We are not talking about smart. We are talking about intelligence.

I would say that most people if not all would have a hard time saying anything about a clam's mentality. Nevermind comparisons to other animals. How would you even know that you are communicating with a clam?

Isjs wrote:

Ironical wrote:

Not at all. I quoted you directly.

In any case, you answered your own question, why it your comparison false? By your own admission, it seems, licensing hunters is not like "sacrificing 1 woman to be raped." The two initial postulates are not similar, therefore your analogy fails.

You are quite disingenuous by the way.

You did not quote me directly. You are lying. You said that I equated rape with killing an elephant. Nowhere is there a direct quote of me saying that.

The analogy is comparable. I admitted nothing. You are once again making up things that I never said. I never said licensing hunters is like sacrificing 1 woman to be raped.

I'm not disingenuous. You just either have very poor reading comprehension or you are a liar.

If killing every elephant in the world prevented even one rape of a human, it would be worth it.

That's how dramatically different the value of humans and any other species is.

iSJS wrote:

If killing every elephant in the world prevented even one rape of a human, it would be worth it.

That's how dramatically different the value of humans and any other species is.

wow some people are truly racist selfish sociopaths

iSJS wrote:

Isjs wrote:

You did not quote me directly. You are lying. You said that I equated rape with killing an elephant. Nowhere is there a direct quote of me saying that.

The analogy is comparable. I admitted nothing. You are once again making up things that I never said. I never said licensing hunters is like sacrificing 1 woman to be raped.

I'm not disingenuous. You just either have very poor reading comprehension or you are a liar.

If killing every elephant in the world prevented even one rape of a human, it would be worth it.

That's how dramatically different the value of humans and any other species is.

This comment does nothing, and I can only presume you're trying to stir the pot. If I stated "senescene research is the most interesting research in science" it would do absolutely nothing other than let you all know I think it's pretty rad. This is exceptionally meaningless on an anonymous message board.

If you just wanted to let us know you think humans are more important than other species, it has been noted.

If you posted this to actually have some form of discussion, then I ask on what arguments do you make that claim? I.e. what is your logical reasoning for the claim that humans are of greater "value" than any other species?

Isjs wrote:

This Manly Man wrote:

Would you have a difficult time saying that bonobos are smarter than clams? If so that is truly a sad testament to your own intelligence. If not then you should probably "find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species."

Now you are moving goalposts. We are not talking about smart. We are talking about intelligence.

I would say that most people if not all would have a hard time saying anything about a clam's mentality. Nevermind comparisons to other animals. How would you even know that you are communicating with a clam?

You seem more than capable of engaging in intelligent discussion. So why make posts like this? This is a running message board, not one for discussing the mental capabilities of other species, and not everyone is versed in the specific use of terms in a given field, and you basically just disregarded Manly Man's posts by saying he is talking about something different.

That is possible, but if you think that's the case, wouldn't it make more sense to explain how you're using smart and how you're using intelligent and the differences between them?

You could well be right, but telling people that the sources/information they cited is wrong and leaving it at that is not much more convincing than just saying "nah man, you're wrong". Perhaps to people well versed, it's obvious and doesn't need further explanation, but to someone not familiar with the topic it looks like he posted a bunch of stuff showing that elephants are intelligent and you responded with "you don't understand what you read".

You might be right, but you're definitely not convincing.

You are kidding, right? That is your argument? Seriously?

Well, regarding my grandmother's acorn recipe, it has nothing to do with any of this discussion and exactly as much as your attempted appeal to your own expertise. You couldn't figure that out? Perhaps I was wrong to assume that I was interacting with a sentient being.

So, according to you "the material represents my reading of the material"? Maybe we should start a little lower on this whole understanding hierarchy. Do you have any understanding of the English language? Any at all? Let's start there.

This Manly Man wrote:

kangaroomie wrote:

The manly man, I find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species. It's already difficult enough to compare the different types of intelligences between humans, now you're moving to new species?

Either way, the intelligence of a being should not determine the value of their lives.

Would you have a difficult time saying that bonobos are smarter than clams? If so that is truly a sad testament to your own intelligence. If not then you should probably "find it interesting that you're trying compare intelligence levels between two seperate species."

I would have no issue with stating that bonobos have higher cognition and sentience than clams.

Would I have a hard time saying that this makes them 'smarter?' From a human's perspective, yes, but in other examples of comparable species, this may be harder to determine.

Intelligence between species is difficult to measure when using a scale based upon human intelligences and tendencies.

My main point is that the intelligence of a being should not determine the value of its life.

I feel like it's getting too serious here so let's take a little break and ponder on this....I wonder if the hunter thought right before he passed that it felt like an elephant was sitting on his chest? Back to the regular program.

In all seriousness, it's too bad this happened to the hunter and the elephant.

Thanks for weighing in nerd. Go back to the Peter Singer message board.

Isjs wrote:

gardener wrote:

Wut? You're ignorant.

Ever heard of touch-me-not flowers? Don't plants have a will to reach for sun light?

You're trying to rationalize your predatory life by ignoring . "Plant cells" and "animal cells" are a thing of the long forgotten past. If anything, there are only living cells. A plant can be an animal and an animal can be a plant.

You're a predator, just like the dead elephant hunter. Stop whining and deal with it.

That flower behavior is not necessarily will. So far, it is just physics and chemical reactions. A plant cannot be an animal. An animal cannot be a plant. Each word has a definition and refers to different types of entities. I'm not whining. I'm not a predator. There is nothing to deal with.

Look up carnivorous plants. There's no fundamental difference between those and spiders. Plants even have mitochondria just like runners. And "will" is a purely non-scientific construct. Animal life, just as plant life, is just physics and chemical reactions.

It is flat out wrong to be shaming the memory of this smashingly great white hunter. It crushes me to hear all you self-righteous vegetarians talk about how superior your squash, mashed potatoes and pancakes are compared to my flat iron steak. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I need to decompress.