Why don't we call lawyers Dr.

cause they're f***ing lawyers????

Do you call anyone with a PhD doctor? The handful of PhDs I hang around almost never get called doctor. I can't even recall a single instance that wasn't meant in a funny way.

Actually, we don't call anyone with a PhD a doctor. The saying goes, "a 'doctor' is a professor without a job."

I suspect that it's a result of the way the medical profession developed. Historically, a lot of medicine was practiced by barbers, "surgeons," and other working class tradespeople. "Physicians" or "doctors of medicine," on the other hand, were almost part of the gentry, along with the two other "learned professions," the clergy and the law. My guess would be that medical doctors took to calling themselves "doctors" in order to differentiate themselves from lesser medical practitioners who did not attend university. Lawyers and clergy probably didn't have as much outside competition so had no need to emphasize the title of their degrees. Just a guess.

Shoebacca wrote:

Do you call anyone with a PhD doctor? The handful of PhDs I hang around almost never get called doctor. I can't even recall a single instance that wasn't meant in a funny way.

I'm a PhD and I get called 'doctor' occasionally. Sometimes it's when my boss is talking to his boss and wants add authority to something we've worked on.

Shoebacca wrote:

Do you call anyone with a PhD doctor? The handful of PhDs I hang around almost never get called doctor. I can't even recall a single instance that wasn't meant in a funny way.

Huh. My experience is the opposite. In college, all students called our professors Dr. and last name. I have a friend who is a retired professor, and pretty much everyone still calls him Dr. and last name.

not a doctor, play one on tv wrote:

Shoebacca wrote:

Do you call anyone with a PhD doctor? The handful of PhDs I hang around almost never get called doctor. I can't even recall a single instance that wasn't meant in a funny way.

Huh. My experience is the opposite. In college, all students called our professors Dr. and last name. I have a friend who is a retired professor, and pretty much everyone still calls him Dr. and last name.

When was this? And where (what region, no need for specifics) was this? I do not pose these as rhetorical questions. I teach at a large public university on the West Coast and my students refer to me as "a teacher" or "the teacher" as often as "Dr." The grad students I work with just call me by my first name. When I work as an editor or moderator or invited speaker, no one refers to me as "Dr." unless it's in an introductory memo or some such. And why should they? I am not working in a hospital, nor could I do much more in that setting than smile and greet people.

West Coast culture is casual in general and to insist on an antiquated title derived from a degree is generally seen as putting on airs.

Called college professors "Professor [lastname]". Called high school teachers with PhDs "Doctor [lastname]"

Podunk U. wrote:

And why should they? I am not working in a hospital, nor could I do much more in that setting than smile and greet people.

You are confusing "doctor" and something like "physician". Correlation does not equal causation.

800 dude wrote:

I suspect that it's a result of the way the medical profession developed.

Part of the AMA's purpose is to protect/build the profession. As a result, medical doctors are socially more well-regarded than lawyers.

Why are lawyers graves always dug at 12 feet instead of the 6 feet the rest of us get?

Because deep down lawyers are really good people.

In North Carolina (and many other states), the rules of professional responsibility prohibit lawyers from using the title "Doctor." The rationale is that the title is misleading.

Do they prohibit it for Professors?

Why do they single out lawyers?

Would you call physical therapists doctors? They get doctorate degrees now, as well as pharmacists, optometrists (not to be confused with opthalmologists who went to medical school) and there are even doctor of nursing now. I wouldn't call any of them doctor. If there is a medical emergency on an airplane and the crew asks for a doctor on board, you think any of these "doctors", except maybe the nurse, will raise their hand?

Apples and oranges. The State Bar writes the rules of professional responsibility for lawyers. It doesn't regulate other professions.

accounting wrote:

Podunk U. wrote:

And why should they? I am not working in a hospital, nor could I do much more in that setting than smile and greet people.

You are confusing "doctor" and something like "physician". Correlation does not equal causation.

It's not a confusion of terms, but rather a gesture toward the common use of the term "doctor" in our parlance. What I'm saying is that I don't really care to have the term applied to me or those in my profession because, at least where I live and work, it is a usage that is going out of style, whereas "physician" and "doctor" have become almost totally synonymous.

800 dude wrote:

My guess would be that medical doctors took to calling themselves "doctors" in order to differentiate themselves from lesser medical practitioners who did not attend university.

Incorrect. "Doctor" is latin for "I teach" and was a title given to those had a license to teach theology, medicine or (... drum roll for OP ...) law at universities.

Bill Walker wrote:

In North Carolina (and many other states), the rules of professional responsibility prohibit lawyers from using the title "Doctor." The rationale is that the title is misleading.

True. Although there is usually an exception if the lawyer is also an MD or PhD or some other type of "doctor," in which case the lawyer in question is permitted to use the title "Dr." You thus see a lot of PhD patent lawyers referred to as "Dr. Smith" or whatever.

Clam Evans wrote:

Called college professors "Professor [lastname]". Called high school teachers with PhDs "Doctor [lastname]"

Interesting. I do recall having a high school teacher with a Ph.D. Everybody referred to her as "Dr." But that was a couple decades ago. It appears students are becoming more casual about academic honorifics.

To the OP: As the term "doctor" becomes more and more completely aligned with the work of physicians, lawyers, whose education has nothing to do with medical practice, will never be deemed doctors.

In the US, lawyers used to get a LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws). This was changed to a J.D. because law schools began requiring a bachelor's degree before law school and a law degree was a post-bachelor's graduate degree. After they changed the name, if you had earned a LL.B you could pay your university a fee and they would reissue your LL.B. as a J.D. Because of that history and because a J.D. is a professional degree that isn't considered equivalent to a research doctorate or a medical degree you don't call a lawyer "doctor."

A lawyer with a doctorate who you might call "doctor" gets an S.J.D. (Doctor of Juridical Science), which is a post-J.D. research degree that is the equivalent of a Ph.D., Ed.D. or other doctorate.

Unlike lawyers, Doctors of Physical Therapy and Doctors of Nursing Practice are now trying to call themselves "doctors," which the M.D.s don't like and consider misleading.