Prominent Elite Club Closing its doors at years end

I'm sure rcjason will move on and set up another.

Brooks Beasts?

Hoka NAZ?

It's NAZ elite as multiple athletes have "retired."

Pro running is not a tough kid if you aren't an idiot. Ben Rosario is pompous.

There are less than 5 elite clubs

NOP

OTC

Hansons

Mammoth Track Club

Are there any others?

indaknow wrote:

It's NAZ elite as multiple athletes have "retired."

Pro running is not a tough kid if you aren't an idiot. Ben Rosario is pompous.

Who is retiring? They just signed Futsum Z. To what a 6 month contract?

I'm calling bs. Ben Rosario is a good man. Stop the unsubstantiated bashing. I always read this crap without ever hearing a single example. Put up or shut up.

Mammoth lost the Asics deal last year and is pretty much done already.

I would guess Zap as Reebok stopped making running shoes a long time ago.

Track Clubbin' wrote:

There are less than 5 elite clubs

NOP

OTC

BTC

Are there any others?

Fixed that for you.

There are many other clubs with one or two elite runners, but I'm not sure that I would define any others as "elite clubs". The definition I am using for elite is "in contention for a WC/Oly team spot".

Note that this is for mid-distance/distance only. There are several elite sprint clubs.

I think there are different levels of elite groups/clubs out there. Some are all under the same sponsorship and affiliation, others are a collection of people who train under the same coach.

NOP and BTC are the only true world class clubs. I would have put Wetmore's small group up there before Coburn left. And the Simmons Army group is in this category. Regardless of what you think, they have people on teams.

After that, you have the collection of teams with one or two studs who have the potential to make teams and then a bunch of people who make the trials.

OTC is the overpaid country club squad who gets paid well but doesn't deliver the goods.

Brooks Beasts are a collection of athletes who are almost good enough to make teams. Hansons has always had one stud who makes it and a bunch of also-rans in the marathon trials.

Rosario's group falls in line here. A good collection of talent, but no one's broken through to world class. Well funded for a 2nd tier group.

NorCal distance has some top notch talent in Grace, Conley, and O'Connor but not much depth after that.

Big Bear TC- Brenda and Borris are world class. But beyond that they seem to get a collection of trials types. Thankfully less drama for them this year!

Magness, though they don't train together so it doesn't count as much, has the best depth of top notch female long distance ladies with Spence, Rogers, Crouch, and others who seem to excel at the half.

Ray Treacy has a small but stellar group. Seems more top notch talent than depth.

BAA with Mahon has a decent collection of women who are solid, but not great.

Mammoth- I'm not sure who they have left?

Hudson has the award for the most diverse and random group of runners. Seems like every 2nd tier distance runner has been with Hudson at some point.

Boulder Track club has a handful, led by Thweatt.

Roots has the guy with the hippy hair.

Zap's been around for a while.

The New Balance group with D'Agastino has Abbey and a bunch of people who are solid but not world class. Though they seem to get a lot of resources. So you'd think they'd do better.

The elite/sub elite club system started to blossom more after around 2000-2004. There was funding being pushed through USATF/USATF Foundation/Marathons/RRCA. After Meb and Deena won medals, that was the impetus. Now that we really crushed it at the Olympics in the medal count (beyond the sprints/field events) and road race numbers have been declining, it feels like the sport is about to devolve- esp the competitive side. You already see a change in sponsorship direction- many choosing to sponsor ~movie stars or those with significant social media followings.

Asics Furman Elite and entirely new roster except for Garcia. Top 10 US and a couple foreign athletes that can make their National team. Private funding to go along with Asics support. I would put them even with Brooks Beasts.

Wonder why go? wrote:

Asics Furman Elite and entirely new roster except for Garcia. Top 10 US and a couple foreign athletes that can make their National team. Private funding to go along with Asics support. I would put them even with Brooks Beasts.

Beasts are better at this point. With Loxsom, Mackey, Fredronic being legit contenders for teams and Shaq Walker and Heath not too far behind in their chances to make teams.

Furman only has Garcia that is near making a team. If we include foreigners Techuk as well.

Why did Asics stop sponsoring a small track club? All they need to do is give them a few shoes and shorts; an odd plane ticket (coach - distance guys/girls tend to be normal to short).

Groups explained for me wrote:

OTC is the overpaid country club squad who gets paid well but doesn't deliver the goods.

So, you're leaving off the Olympic medalists, WC medalists and world record holder when you judge a group? I guess I can make any group elite or not when I decide who I include in my evaluation and who I don't.

Of course some of these people have departed this year but you can't make an evaluation based on 2017 as the year has just began. But you seem to be retroactively applying these changes to prior year?

In short, your opinion is fairly worthless as your know surprisingly little about the topic.

Unbelievable how much money some of these clubs have invested, including coaching salaries for Mackey, Rowlands, Mahon, etc. Pair those with $50-$70k contracts and it's a shame each one of these groups has maybe one member with a real chance to make Olympic/World team.

ecin wrote:

Groups explained for me wrote:

OTC is the overpaid country club squad who gets paid well but doesn't deliver the goods.

So, you're leaving off the Olympic medalists, WC medalists and world record holder when you judge a group? I guess I can make any group elite or not when I decide who I include in my evaluation and who I don't.

Of course some of these people have departed this year but you can't make an evaluation based on 2017 as the year has just began. But you seem to be retroactively applying these changes to prior year?

In short, your opinion is fairly worthless as your know surprisingly little about the topic.

Two things you need to consider.

1. We are talking about the current state of the club. Do you want me to count Symmonds as part of OTC or Beasts?

2. We are talking about middle and long distance success of clubs. OTC cannot count Ashton Eaton in that evaluation. Or Jesse Williams. Should we count Jeremy Taiwo as part of the Beasts success of putting people on teams? No, that's not what we are evaluating.

How about Riadha. It certainly has some A list athletes including Serena Burla.

Stanford is for winners wrote:

Mammoth lost the Asics deal last year and is pretty much done already.

I would guess Zap as Reebok stopped making running shoes a long time ago.

Except they are making running shoes, and Zap makes $$ on hosting camps at their facility

Truly one of the most thoughtful, insightful and comprehensive posts I've seen on letsrun (minus the oversight on Furman)

Well done! You know your stuff! Coach, athlete or just a knowledgeable fan?

NY*NY falls somewhere around Brooks Beasts category as well