ESPN "Track & Fear" Piece on UA Coach-Athlete Craziness

The sad thing is that I'm sure that this happens a lot more often than we realize.

absolutely no-one deserves abuse like that but let's start with a pro-tip regardless of abuse: don't sleep with your coach (unless maybe you are married to them, but that's still a bad idea, like getting drivers-ed from a parent)

that aside - people who abuse positions of authority should receive the harshest punishment

no idea how you solve/prevent this except for lots of 3rd party supervision with people who aren't just going to "go along to get along"

So, there are some major sociopaths coaching track! Craziness.

cvxxvzc wrote:

So, there are some major sociopaths coaching track! Craziness.

I understand that reaction, but I think the reality is different and more troubling --- otherwise normal people can go very badly wrong when it comes to sexual relationships. What Carter did/is alleged to have done is horrible and indefensible. But people behaving badly, and sometimes very badly, as a relationship ends is not exactly uncommon. So I think there is more to learn from this than, "don't be a sociopath or associate with one." More like, if you don't hit the brakes, this could be the end point.

The bigger issue here, as implied by ESPN, is that the trial for this has gone on for awhile and U of A is under the microscope. How much response is CYA on the part of the school/athletic department/sports program, and how much should be to protect the student? U of A is in some serious hot water here. [See also UPenn Sandusky case and UPenn Greek hazing.]

Sociopaths are everywhere. Vulnerable people are everywhere, too. The role of the director, the AD and the university is A. don't hire them, and B. if you mistakenly hire them, nip 'em in the bud or else, and * C. * act to protect the students and staff.

the coaching world, especially collegiately is a very small community, and typically people in the sport know something is fishy. There was lots of talk about Arizona and the culpability of the head coach. He is sort of "out to lunch" but how he didn't see the signs would be troubling. One would think that the former AD and the head coach would get some type of sanction.

but why wrote:

absolutely no-one deserves abuse like that but let's start with a pro-tip regardless of abuse: don't sleep with your coach (unless maybe you are married to them, but that's still a bad idea, like getting drivers-ed from a parent)

that aside - people who abuse positions of authority should receive the harshest punishment

no idea how you solve/prevent this except for lots of 3rd party supervision with people who aren't just going to "go along to get along"

Oh GFY with this. He's her coach, he can have her scholarship revoked and take away so much from her at any moment.

She was almost always going to do whatever he wanted, even if he didn't directly blackmail her.

Victim blaming in this case, particularly the way you are doing it, is beyond gross.

sublime wrote:

The bigger issue here, as implied by ESPN, is that the trial for this has gone on for awhile and U of A is under the microscope. How much response is CYA on the part of the school/athletic department/sports program, and how much should be to protect the student? U of A is in some serious hot water here. [See also UPenn Sandusky case and UPenn Greek hazing.]

Sociopaths are everywhere. Vulnerable people are everywhere, too. The role of the director, the AD and the university is A. don't hire them, and B. if you mistakenly hire them, nip 'em in the bud or else, and * C. * act to protect the students and staff.

UPenn =/= Penn State

Where are all of the Harvard naysayers in this thread?

Yes, in this area, people get out of control, which is why family and friends are more dangerous than strangers. But what makes you think that this guy was normal in any sense of that word? If you read the article, you see that this was going on for years and we do not have all the cellphone evidence that the police has but the coercion was supposedly going on for much of that time. And certainly what he has admitted to is beyond the pale with the box cutter, etc.

Fred Harvey, I know nothing.....

cvxxvzc wrote:

Yes, in this area, people get out of control, which is why family and friends are more dangerous than strangers. But what makes you think that this guy was normal in any sense of that word?

I was suggesting that people, in general, can often be pretty normal in most areas of life but then lose their s--- when it comes to sexual relationships. So I think we agree on that.

As for Carter specifically, again, what he did is totally indefensible and beyond the pale (assuming the ESPN report is generally accurate, as it certainly seems to be). But nothing in that report, or that I've heard, suggests that he had visible issues in other areas of his life. No mention of getting in fights or DUIs or erratic behavior unconnected with his relationship with Ms. Gibson. He was a well-known throws coach, and in addition to his UofA work, coached Olympian and WC medalist Jillian Camarena-Williams for a decade (and she went to Stanford, so it wasn't just continuing with one of his college athletes).

So while I'm admittedly speculating, it seems possible that Carter came across as normal, and maybe was normal, in areas of his life other than his sexual relationship with Ms. Gibson. Yes, that's a big "other than," ala the classic "other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?" And it excuses nothing about his behavior. But I raised the possibility because I suspect that we are fooling ourselves if we think that these kinds of crimes are only committed by total weirdos.

I will only say that coaches who drink with their college athletes are using very poor judgment. It's a big red flag. Coaches do not equal students. Not peers. Not buddies. Directors have to make that crystal clear.

Bear Down wrote:

Not take anything away from the article or the allegations but Baillie was known to have a huge crush on Coach C and was pretty aggressive towards him. When she drank she was pretty aggressive. Sure, Coach C should have known better but this article does not faithfully represent Baillie or what actually happened.

So what? He's a coach. These rules exist for a reason.

And man, poor him. He had some thrower girl crushing on him. Instead of reporting it, he instead blackmails her, cheats on his wife, stalks and threatens to kill her.

Yeah, poor him. Scumbag.

Bear Down wrote:

Not take anything away from the article or the allegations but Baillie was known to have a huge crush on Coach C and was pretty aggressive towards him. When she drank she was pretty aggressive. Sure, Coach C should have known better but this article does not faithfully represent Baillie or what actually happened.

Um, not to take anything away from your general cluelessness, but those texts, videos, and phone calls are full of outright threats of an authority figure and seemingly very manipulative and vindictive man that is clearly a threat to others. As a person in a position of authority with a family of his own, he could have done the honorable thing from the get-go. He didn't.

Victim blaming is a tired, old strategy.

Bear Down wrote:

Not take anything away from the article or the allegations but Baillie was known to have a huge crush on Coach C and was pretty aggressive towards him. When she drank she was pretty aggressive. Sure, Coach C should have known better but this article does not faithfully represent Baillie or what actually happened.

Ahh yes, victim blaming! A classic letsrun staple.

Who cares? First rule of not being a miserable failure at whatever you are engaged in is to know the rules. She was athlete he was a coach - not complicated.BTW WTF does 'pretty aggressive' mean? Did she break out her jugs and pin him down?

Bear Down wrote:

Not take anything away from the article or the allegations but Baillie was known to have a huge crush on Coach C and was pretty aggressive towards him. When she drank she was pretty aggressive. Sure, Coach C should have known better but this article does not faithfully represent Baillie or what actually happened.

BlahBlahBlah2.0 wrote:

BTW WTF does 'pretty aggressive' mean? Did she break out her jugs and pin him down?

Bear Down wrote:

Not take anything away from the article or the allegations but Baillie was known to have a huge crush on Coach C and was pretty aggressive towards him. When she drank she was pretty aggressive. Sure, Coach C should have known better but this article does not faithfully represent Baillie or what actually happened.

I was thinking the same thing. If she broke out her jugs and pinned him down, THEN the proper response on the coach's part would obviously be... no.

No. No. No. No.

NOT complicated. Clear. Clear boundaries. I am married. No. I am your coach. No. You are moon eyed and desperate, no. You are drunk? No.

Are backbones really in such short supply?

ephing an eph wrote:

Where are all of the Harvard naysayers in this thread?

A Williams alum with an insecurity complex concerning big-bro Harvard? I'm floored.

Agree! Lots of teachers have been the "victim" of a crush from one of their pupils. If that pupil is in their late teens and physically attractive it might require a degree of self control not to give in to temptation. But if you are professional in your approach, or any sort of decent human being, that,s what you do - resist the temptation.

Here in the UK, any teacher involved in this sort of relationship, regardless of whether it is consensual or who initiated it, would be sacked and banned from teaching. A coach is surely in the same position?

In this particular case there seem to be lots of issues. Did her team mates not suspect anything? If they did why did they not report it? Were they frightened to do so, did they think they would not be believed? The response of the university when something did emerge appears to have been woefully inadequate.