It doesn't really matter if it's ever called a PR or WR or whatever. Whenever Kipchoge is ever mentioned, he will forever be known as the first sub-2:01 runner with the fact being qualified that it was in a contrived, non-record-eligible event. He still did it with his own 2 legs, but it will forever be mentioned when his name comes up regardless if it's ever called a PR or WR.
zzzz wrote:
Nikolai wrote:That Tesla cuts the wind significantly, which the formation of pacers then ran into, causing a further increase in drafting effect.
Believe me, those 3 minutes were cut from the car and bodies, not the shoes. Nike were so confident because they could test their theory in a wind tunnel easily. All they needed was for kipchoge to maintain 2:02:xx effort.
Adding the benefit of the Tesla to the pacers to the benefit to Kipchoge doesn't make sense. This isn't like a chain of NASCAR cars. That Tesla is too far ahead to benefit Kipchoge. I'm not even sure the Tesla benefited the front pacer much.
I drove cross country three times last year in my Prius. That left me plenty of time to experiment with hypermiling and a bit of drafting (though I never go so close to be tailgating). I'd watch the effect of distance behind a big rig on the instantaneous miles per gallon, and realized at even at 65 mph, you don't get much of a draft behind a big rig unless you get too close for my comfort. At 13 mph, the effect is much shorter because drag goes up by the square of speed. The turbulent air behind the draftable distance of low pressure behind the truck also quickly ruins the effect. You guys with bikes with power meters could do testing too behind a friend driving a truck at 13 mph. I doubt there would any power savings at the distance Kipchoge was behind the Tesla.
When John Howard set his bicycle speed record, he pedaled about 6 inches away from the vehicle in front of him. Not sure how much drafting advantage Kipchoge would have gotten from the Tesla.
Nikolai wrote:
Riders at the back of a peleton save up to 40% riding at 40km/h so I'm not sure what kind of truck you were following. The savings in marathon running are way, way smaller but a 2%+ in energy savings is huge. That is drafting behind one other runner. Could be as much as 2 minutes across a marathon.
The physics is posted there, it has been tested properly using science. Your personal experience doesn't really count for much here I'm afraid.
And for the record, the Tesla car shielding the runners who in turn shield kipchoge works exactly as you said it doesn't. The vortexes coming off the back of that car with the windbreak on its roof will collide with the pacers who create another low pressure zone that remains turbulent, rather than the air returning to a laminar flow.
The trucks I'm talking about are the 18 wheelers that you see everywhere carrying stuff to stores all over the country. They are much bigger than the sign on the Tesla.
Take another look at the youtube stream. They are not that close to the Tesla. If you intending to get a draft off the Tesla on either foot or bike, you'd get a lot closer. Bikes are pretty much wheel to wheel.
The physics you mention apply to drafting runners. I'm not concerned about that. You and I can do that in any normal race (though obviously Kipchoge can't because he would outrun normal from-the-start-only pacing). I think it's a stretch to add the car. The turbulent air coming off the Tesla sign isn't ideal to draft behind unless you are in the low pressure area up close to it. Have you felt the buffeting of a passing truck when on a bike or a small car? It's not analogous to being in a bike peloton.
And who's to say you can't catch a draft off the camera van in a normal marathon? Here's Kimetto in the WR marathon, starting at a point with him much closer to the camera van than Kipchoge ever was to the Tesla. More often the camera van was off to the side slightly, but if there was a cross wind, coming the right way, that could be good:
If Kipchoge's 2:00:26 dosen't count as any sort of record; does it count as a personal record?
You answered your own question in the subject line.
Try to use your brain before hitting the submit button next time. Jerk.
ddfun wrote:
Each person gets to decide what they count as their PR. Ry Guy Hall probably considers his wind tunnel Boston as his 'thon PR.
As long as they keep it to themselves. They may think it's a PR nobody else will
Who gives AF he is a legend.
Not world record, not personal record.
It's a personal best.
Blabla1 wrote:
Every other Olympic running distance is run on a bouncy track and no one says a thing, but if somone runs a marathon this way it doesn't count? That makes no sense. As long as there is no net downhill it's a record. If you think otherwise then Bekele and El Guerrouj are no world record holders.
0/10
Bad Wigins wrote:
KarlMarxist wrote:to increase stiffness and provide a propulsion sensation.
See how careful they are not to get sued for false advertising?
The shoes had nothing to do with it. Just the pacers, steady draft from a vehicle and other support.
The other support of course being the shoes.
KarlMarxist wrote:
Yea but all the runners run on the same "bouncy" track. No one says a thing because there aren't people still running on cinder tracks anymore.
Don't get Bad Wigins started on the monaco track....
braincheck wrote:
If Kipchoge's 2:00:26 dosen't count as any sort of record; does it count as a personal record?
You answered your own question in the subject line.
Try to use your brain before hitting the submit button next time. Jerk.
Take a spoonful of your own advice and see how it tastes.
Why do some mammals continue with these rude retorts as the above one just did?
The IAAF won't list this as his personal best.
Support these on chin wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:See how careful they are not to get sued for false advertising?
The shoes had nothing to do with it. Just the pacers, steady draft from a vehicle and other support.
The other support of course being the shoes.
Even Nike doesn't claim they make you faster, and they don't. It's just not how footstrike works.
The easiest way to explain this is to go out and run or walk and try to keep your heel on the ground the whole way through. It does not take any energy at all to lift the heel or take the foot off the ground, on the contrary it takes energy not to. So a "boost" pushing it upwards is as irrelevant as a "boost" making your arms swing.
Blabla1 wrote:
Every other Olympic running distance is run on a bouncy track and no one says a thing, but if somone runs a marathon this way it doesn't count? That makes no sense. As long as there is no net downhill it's a record. If you think otherwise then Bekele and El Guerrouj are no world record holders.
Yes indeedy. But what if the bouncy gets even more trampoline like!
There have to be limits or it's not running. It's bouncing. You could say that Kipchoge bounced a 2:00 something marathon.
Drugs help in a lot of ways. The main reason why Barry Bonds record should not count is it helped him recover from injuries faster. At an older age he could play more innings. The same is true for the guy using altastenadyone or whatever it was called!
Do we want all our athletes to die at 47?
if the distance is correct, that 2.00.26 run is the real world record..... in my book
everyone should keep their own book.
in actual fact, no world record is really real.
a certain group decide if an athlete is clean or not.
of course, testing was always a joke, and continues to be so.
case in point is to have every world record scrapped prior to 2005.
well, you could make pre 2005 records and post 2005.
post 2005 records, really have little meaning too, because there are new ways to dope, which are not tested for, etc... so you're really back at square 1.
but you have to recognize the iaaf and their decision about what' what.
so, no, the opinion of the crooked iaaf is not a good one.
you can only look at their rigor and data collection for a performance and judge.
at the end of the day, i'm for a free for all, where you can do anything you want, just get your prescriptions throught a doctor, and share the medical info.
black sports medicine has developed many fantastic remedies for muscle wasting, libido issues, blood disorders, yet you local GP has no clue.
It tis an idiotic paradigm top to fcking bottom.
If this supposed record has anything what so ever to do with breaking the rules then it is totally 100% crap (bullshit) and like cycling and Lance and his supposed wins . Why in the world would anyone associated with running consider anything to to with a cheat anything other than cheating and not label this person for life as a cheater? By the way check the urine.... Where in the world are the urine tests after the race posted...?
If this supposed record has anything what so ever to do with breaking the rules then it is totally 100% crap (bullshit) and like cycling and Lance and his supposed wins . Why in the world would anyone associated with running consider anything to to with a cheat anything other than cheating and not label this person for life as a cheater? By the way check the urine.... Where in the world are the urine tests after the race posted...?
If I physically ran any time you better believe I'm counting it as my PR.
Bad Wigins wrote: Even Nike doesn't claim they make you faster, and they don't.
This just shows how ignorant you are. Try hearing what they actually say before spouting off your gibberish and stupidity.
https://www.si.com/edge/2017/03/07/nike-zoom-vaporfly-elite-sub-two-hour-marathon-attempt"We wanted to make the shoes a lighter weight. We also wanted to make them return more energy and aerodynamic." "All of it works together in a really harmonious way to deliver a benefit." Benefit means faster times. More energy means faster times.