1972 Dream Mile - Jim Ryun & Dave Wottle

Jim Run? wrote:

Wottle with a pretty sweet kick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATCzd_NXdzs

Is this a joke????

Old time grinder of a race.

Thanks for posting.

Wottle was tough as nails.

full disclosure: Mr. Wottle's performance in Munich, West Germany got me interested in the sport of distance running.

Petticoat Junction wrote:

Wottle was tough as nails.

full disclosure: Mr. Wottle's performance in Munich, West Germany got me interested in the sport of distance running.

Wottle was an alltime great, and it's a shame he didn't continue for longer. Did he run the 1500m in Munich? On this evidence he would have been at his peak and a contender in both 800/1500 in Montreal.

Also - was this race before or after Munich. Seems obvious that Ryun would not be a contender in Munich, yet it's often said that he was the unluckiest athlete in history and would have won the 1972 1500m if he hadn't been tripped.

Really his time as an elite runner extends only from 1965 to 1969.

Not denigrating perhaps the greatest talent in history, but his career is comparable to Coe losing both the 800 AND 1500 to Ovett in Moscow and then contracting his illness in 81 and never coming back as a force.

Ryun was inconsistent post-'67 with shocking run in '68 trials for 800 when as huge WR holder, he finished near/actual last !?

by '72 he was probably even worse & even moreso hated running in eugene because of it's high pollen count - Rupp has worn a mask on 1 occasion when running there

in '72 he ran shocking 800 in trials when kicking a suicidal 11.6 !!! at 500 & still held on for 1'45-low but crucially lost dip for 3rd by barely a whisker & no shot at munich 800

that lost dip cost him likely 800 gold in munich because wottle was injured there despite winning gold & that's why he had to run at the back in munich not thru choice

i doubt Ryun wouda run such a suicidal 800 in munich as in eugene & waited to maybe last 200 or 100 for kick which no one couda matched - if you can kick a 11.6 in 2nd lap a 1'45-low, no one will match that kick

his 1500 was interesting in trials :

he ran basically same clocking & last 300 & 400 as cram did in winning '83 gold

cram though didn't have 800 rounds in his legs for that & didn't run any serious extra distance on bends & no hayfever issues making Ryun's comparable shape far superior to cram's shape in '83

cram ran 3'31.66 that year in crap paced/drafted run & most definitely was in 3'30-flat/low shape in ideal run in '83 which gives indication of Ryun's shape in '72, when just a shadow of his '67 shape

here are brief clips of '72 races

https://youtu.be/gjDspIQYNCg?t=348

This is a joke / troll right ?

Or I must have missed Coe giving back his 1500 gold to the IOC .

After 1981 ?

Ever heard of Los Angeles 1984 1500 meter run ?

Reading might , and that 's a big MiGHT , do you some good .

LOL, no it's not a joke or a troll - I was just trying to compare Ryun's career to a hypothetical trajectory of Coe's. Perhaps you need to improve your reading.

wottle always had a kick

The race in the OP was prior to Munich and prior to the OTs of 1972. Ryun was really inconsistent once he returned to the sport after retiring. There's absolutely no way of predicting how he would have done in Munich had he made the final of the 1500m....he may have won the race or he may have jogged in at the back. Same with the 800m had he qualified for the US team.

Wottle ran the 1500m in Munich but, I believe, went out in the semis. He had tendinitis that year (the reason he said he started so cautiously), so between that & having won the 800m he probably wasn't quite as motivated for the 1500m (like Ovett in 1980).

I went to BGSU just after he left & met him a couple times, and had the sense he didn't love running for the sake of it (unlike Sid Sink, whose career also suffered from unfortunate injuries in 1972).

As other posters have said, in 1972 Ryun was as equally likely to run a 3:52 mile as 3:52 1500. He still had "it" but couldn't count on it being there when he needed it. Still, in more modern days the US would have appealed his getting tripped in his heat & maybe he'd have had a shot at gold.

1955 wrote:

As other posters have said, in 1972 Ryun was as equally likely to run a 3:52 mile as 3:52 1500. He still had "it" but couldn't count on it being there when he needed it. Still, in more modern days the US would have appealed his getting tripped in his heat & maybe he'd have had a shot at gold.

An appeal was filed and it was denied

Vape 4 per cent wrote:

Coevett wrote:

LOL, no it's not a joke or a troll - I was just trying to compare Ryun's career to a hypothetical trajectory of Coe's. Perhaps you need to improve your reading.

Hypothetical ?

You are drunk arsehole

Really, Ryun's unfulfilled promise could be compared to Ovett taking up vaping and perhaps running into a railing BEFORE Moscow, and never coming back as a force, or at least only as an inconsistent shadow of his previous dominant self.

Lol, enough unintentional trolling as there have been some really interesting comments on this thread and I don't want to derail it further.

- the great Dave Wottle

A New York Times article on the race : http://www.nytimes.com/1972/05/15/archives/wottle-wins-mile-with-ryun-ninth-victor-does-3585-in-field-of-10.html

Bill Toomey sounds like Jerry Seinfeld commenting on the race.

Didn't know they held a Dream Mile at Franklin Field.

smile wrote:

He then ran a 3:52 mile in Toronto before the Games (third fastest in history behind his two world records, albeit on a synthetic track). All signs pointed to him being ready to go.

The Toronto mile (3:52.8) was at the end of July, after the trials, but it wasn't his last race before the Games. In mid-August, before a hometown crowd in Lawrence, Kansas, he ran a 9:13.4 two-mile, finishing over forty seconds behind the winner. The local newspaper said that he "turtled" to a "pedestrian" clocking before 4,000 fans who "watched in dumbfounded disappointment." His race was consistent with his pattern of remarkably erratic performances throughout 1972.

I don't share the earlier poster's view that it "[s]eems obvious that Ryun would not be a contender in Munich," but neither do I share your view that "[a]ll signs pointed to him being ready to go." Rather, I share the earlier poster's skepticism about the oft-repeated assertion that Ryun would have won the gold "if he hadn't been tripped." First, it's not at all clear that he was tripped by anyone; Ryun had a history of fallling when running in packs because his partial deafness caused imbalance problems. Second, it's not at all clear that he would have even gotten to the finals if he hadn't fallen. Third,it's not at all clear that he would have beaten Vasala and Keino, who both showed excellent form.

he was magnificent in trials !

he lost the 800 because of suicidal 11.5 !!! kick at 500 but still held onto 1'45-flat, but lost 3rd by dip & no 800 in munich

it is 100% obvious if he'd run conservatively in trials he wouda crushed wottle

Ryun's shape that meet indicates 1'42-mid & that is sliver of his '67 peak but still hugely good enough to have won munich if he'd run trials even sliver easier & waited to kick at 700

no

he was in

~ 1'42-mid / 3'29-flat

in trials

he definitely couda won double gold if in both finals

nonsense

you get in shape when you got games ticket

he wouda run damn well in games

the above shape & 11.5 kick in trials shows he wouda obliterated wottle if saved for last 100

nonsense

he missed qualifying for team by dip !!!

all because he inexplicably & suicidally, probably from lack of serious 800s in past 4y including retirement, decided to kick in a 11.5 !!! at 500

wottle readily admits he ran WR off Ryun's surge & if you drag it out of him, he will likely eventually admit that Ryun was the better intrinsic 800 guy in trials

Ryun was in likely 1'42-mid shape, wottle ~ 1'43-low

there is big difference

Ryun, well past his '67 peak, albeit Ryun ran 1'44.3WR at barely 19y in '66 when non-peak, as shown in brief clip which IMO indicates 1'40-flat shape on '70s track :

Coevett wrote:

Vape 4 per cent wrote:

Hypothetical ?

You are drunk arsehole

Really, Ryun's unfulfilled promise could be compared to Ovett taking up vaping and perhaps running into a railing BEFORE Moscow, and never coming back as a force, or at least only as an inconsistent shadow of his previous dominant self.

Lol, enough unintentional trolling as there have been some really interesting comments on this thread and I don't want to derail it further

is this a joke ???

ovett woudn't even get into same continent to even attempt to locate Ryun's '67 jockstrap let alone ever dream to carry it !!!

Ovett would have finished the race, written I love you to Rachael, done a victory lap and then read the tax code before Ryun had gotten up off the track and finished the race. Naturally, Ryun would have lodged a protest because it somehow wasn't fair. Then 35 years later, some babbling moron would theorize that he could run 1:39 and 3:24 in a true example of mental insanity.