Do you include glycogen depleted runs as part of your training?

I wouldn't say I plan on it, but in my long runs I am certainly depleted for glycogen in the last half as I tend to not take gu or Gatorade, just maybe some water.

Its helpful because in the marathon you are going to battle that.

Having said that I don't know how that will help you in the discus.

The discus is great but more into the marathon these days.

I was thinking along the lines of running in a fasted state. I assume - but could be wrong - that your glycogen stores would be somewhat depleted from the get-go. Curious if there are helpful physiological adaptations that go along with that.

Maybe you would achieve the same benefit by not refueling during long runs (which I don't).

About half my training runs are first thing in the morning, so I'm in a fasted state. I do feel like I am a more efficient runner when I am more consistently doing morning runs like this.

Every single run I do is in the morning before breakfast, including training runs of up to 20 miles. It is certainly helpful in that the alternative would involve regular vomiting, which is not conducive to good training.

amkelley wrote:

Every single run I do is in the morning before breakfast, including training runs of up to 20 miles. It is certainly helpful in that the alternative would involve regular vomiting, which is not conducive to good training.

Why would the alternative be regular vomiting? No running with food in your stomach, or..?

Personally I run almost every morning before breakfast. Most days it feels difficult for the first 20 minutes or so, but once I get into the groove it works, and whether or not it actually helps with training adaptation (I think that's up for debate) I feel accomplished afterward.

If I run too hard or too long first thing in the morning, I can feel the moment I run out of glycogen. Lightheaded, and I no longer want to move. I guess that's "the wall." I'm not a fan of that sensation; so for a longer run of e.g. 20+ miles (probably anything greater than 15 or so actually) I will always eat at least a little bit of something first. No vomit for me, in any case!

Look up the work of Louise Burke from the Australian Institute of Sport.

Many people do this without planning to do it.

I found it made those runs less pleasant most of the time.

umm...... wrote:

Why would the alternative be regular vomiting? No running with food in your stomach, or..?

Personally I run almost every morning before breakfast. Most days it feels difficult for the first 20 minutes or so, but once I get into the groove it works, and whether or not it actually helps with training adaptation (I think that's up for debate) I feel accomplished afterward.

If I run too hard or too long first thing in the morning, I can feel the moment I run out of glycogen. Lightheaded, and I no longer want to move. I guess that's "the wall." I'm not a fan of that sensation; so for a longer run of e.g. 20+ miles (probably anything greater than 15 or so actually) I will always eat at least a little bit of something first. No vomit for me, in any case.

I get nauseous if I try to run with any food in my stomach at all. I need at least 4-5 hours after eating anything before I can run. 8-10 hours is better. First thing in the morning is great.

I don't run marathons anymore, but back when I did I never "hit the wall" in the classic sense despite eating nothing before or during the race. I've always assumed I'm just a very efficient fat burner, so that when I run out of glycogen it doesn't matter much.

Doping works wrote:

I wouldn't say I plan on it, but in my long runs I am certainly depleted for glycogen in the last half as I tend to not take gu or Gatorade, just maybe some water.

Its helpful because in the marathon you are going to battle that.

Having said that I don't know how that will help you in the discus.

Well, you're not a serious runner. When you're out there for 4+ hours, gu and sport beans can be the difference between a finisher's medal and disappointment.

Any of you runners complete the 5X18 in a depleted state?

I do intermittent fasting and feel great when I run on low or no glycogen. I also will follow the ketogenic diet for about 3 months of the year. That's when I truly feel the best

Whitney Waddles wrote:

Doping works wrote:

I wouldn't say I plan on it, but in my long runs I am certainly depleted for glycogen in the last half as I tend to not take gu or Gatorade, just maybe some water.

Its helpful because in the marathon you are going to battle that.

Having said that I don't know how that will help you in the discus.

Well, you're not a serious runner. When you're out there for 4+ hours, gu and sport beans can be the difference between a finisher's medal and disappointment.

Is it common in marathon training the runs over four hours?

rcjason wrote:

Any of you runners complete the 5X18 in a depleted state?

Normally, I start those runs pretty topped off with glycogen after consuming a few bottles of beet juice. But I'd imagine that 5x18 would be pretty depleting. Do you do them back-to-back? If so, what rest intervals?

No, because if you were glycogen depleted you would die.

running on empty wrote:

If so, do you find it helpful?

Discus.

amkelley wrote:

Every single run I do is in the morning before breakfast, including training runs of up to 20 miles. It is certainly helpful in that the alternative would involve regular vomiting, which is not conducive to good training.

How would you vomit up your liver?

keepgoing wrote:

About half my training runs are first thing in the morning, so I'm in a fasted state. I do feel like I am a more efficient runner when I am more consistently doing morning runs like this.

And your liver is still full of glycogen.

They make sense to me for sure & yes, I do work glycogen depletion runs into the training of those I coach. 'Sleep low' (google it) appears to be the best way to get most gains right now if there's a consensus at all.

I did a ton of depleted runs by accident leading up to my first marathon and it seemed to help. These weren't even long runs, just 8-10 after work. Somehow I wasn't eating enough during the day, so a lot of these runs I'd either feel hungry or near bonking.

I never ran over 16 miles, was only doing like 50 mpw, and only took a couple cups of gatorade, but didn't bonk and managed 2:44 on a course that runs 8-10 minutes slow.

rcjason wrote:

Any of you runners complete the 5X18 in a depleted state?

No but I'm usually pretty depleted after breaking 2.55 in the 'thon.

Ghrelin wrote:

I did a ton of depleted runs by accident leading up to my first marathon and it seemed to help. These weren't even long runs, just 8-10 after work. Somehow I wasn't eating enough during the day, so a lot of these runs I'd either feel hungry or near bonking.

I never ran over 16 miles, was only doing like 50 mpw, and only took a couple cups of gatorade, but didn't bonk and managed 2:44 on a course that runs 8-10 minutes slow.

Technically, these weren't glycogen depletion runs as you were only out there an hour or at most 90 minutes. We're talking 2 hour plus runs. Or if 'sleeping low', a medium hard effort after a previous days long run. Lots of recent info. out there, just look it up. I'm backing it as a training tool for marathoners.