My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

Week ending in: 6/24

Sunday AM 4x800m cruise intervals with 1min rest on Cinder track. Avg 2:48

PM 4.5 miles easy @ 7:46 pace

Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 9 miles steady on trails @ 6:40 pace + Strides

Tuesday AM 2.8 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 6.1 miles @ 7:55 pace on trails + strides

Wednesday Off

Thursday AM 1 mile tempo in 5:18 + 8x200m avg 32". 90" rest.

PM 2.7 miles @ 7:45 pace + 500yds swimming and 100yds kicking drills.

Friday 3 mile shakeout @ 7:06 pace

Saturday 5 mile road race in 27:48. Hilly and warm.

Week total: 54 miles

This week didn't really go as planned. I took wednesday off because I've been having an odd shin pain that I thought may have been bone related but now I'm not so sure. So that was precautionary. And I was the same way with Friday, only doing a short run in the evening.

The race saturday had its ups and downs. I was out pretty quick as the first mile was mostly down hill. Ran about 5:05 and tried to stay relaxed after that. Went uphill for a while and dropped one kid running with us, and I got dropped by the other kid. Those positions stayed the same the whole rest of the race after about 2 miles. The last 1.5 miles were very difficult not only because I don't have the endurance yet for a 5 mile race and because it was pretty much all uphill. It was a cool day but the sections of the race in the sun were very warm. Overall I'm content with the race as it isn't too far off my 8k PR and it was a tough course early in the summer. On to the next.

Any updates?

Week ending in 07/01

Sunday 8.4 miles @ 7:18 pace

Monday Sick, Off

Tuesday SIck, Off

Wednesday 8 miles @ 7:30 pace + Lifting

Thursday 5.5 miles @ 7:27 pace

Friday 8.1 miles @ 7:50 pace on trails

Saturday 12.4 miles @ 7:16 pace + 4x100m in 14.6, 14.4, 13.5, and 12.3

Week total: 42.4 miles

Well this week is very uneventful. I had some sort of head cold on Monday and had a slight fever tuesday, so I took both days off. I started running again on Wednesday, although I didn't really feel better until the next week. 42 miles isn't terrible for only 5 days of running, though. And I was happy to get in a long run and I was happy to feel good on those strides after the long run. 12.3 was barely even difficult. Will post this current week tomorrow, probably.

Week ending in 07/08

Sunday: 9.2 miles @ 7:15 pace

Monday: 8.3 miles @ 7:27 pace + strides

Tuesday: AM 2.3 miles @ 7:38 pace

PM 7x1000m in 3:26 with 200m jog rest (~1:00) + 4x100m barefoot strides in ~14 seconds.

Wednesday: 5 miles @ 7:45 pace on the treadmill + lifting + 900 yards swimming

Thursday: Fartlek. 10 miles total. 1 min jogging rest @ high 7 pace between everything

5min tempo (6:01), 1 minute fast (4:57)

4min tempo (5:51), 1 minute fast (4:59)

3min tempo (5:47), 1 minute fast (5:02)

2min tempo (5:48), 1 minute fast (4:55)

1min tempo (5:40), 1 minute fast (4:35)

Friday: 2 miles @ 7:30 pace + Lifting + 1000 yards swimming

Saturday: 3.2 miles @ 7:04 pace + Strides

Week total: 50 miles running, 1.1 miles swimming

Well, this week was pretty bittersweet. My shin still has a dull ache that I'm not sure of. I've been not worrying about my mileage much on the days after my workouts for the sake of my shin, although it hasn't gotten any worse and doesn't even hurt when running.

The CV pace 1k repeats felt really good and smooth. I'm going to keep incorporating 6-8x1k for the rest of the summer like this, and hopefully slowly work the pace down to 3:20 or better.

The fartlek was pretty good also. I wanted to do something different, but I knew I had a long tempo planned for Sunday, so I didn't want to do another tempo, so I made up a fartlek and actually had a lot of fun doing it. The last few reps were tough since I was getting less time at tempo to 'recover' from the hard 1 minute reps.

I'm getting into swimming a little bit again. The pool doesn't have an aqua jogging vest and I don't think I do it right without it (I kinda just tread and don't think my form is correct). So I've been swimming, since that is much more enjoyable anyways. It's gotten much easier with each swim and I'm going to keep going 2-3 times a week with the end goal of at least 2 miles a week. I figure it's good cardio for running, and its not replacing any running. If anything, I may do a few less upper body lifts since I'm swimming, so I won't gain much upper body mass if any. Also, lifting has been going well. I'm getting into a better routine. I have 2-3 lifts where I lift with high weight, and the rest of the lifts are often more technical and with lower weight (Bulgarian split squats, step ups, etc). I've worked up to doing sets of 4 on deadlift with ~ 265lbs and sets of 4 on bench with 165lbs. The only other lift I do heavy with less than 6 reps is deep squats. It's not too heavy yet, but I'm building up. Otherwise I usually do 6-8 reps for my other lifts. Just building a base, for the most part.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask

The dull ache in your shin is a stress reaction or fracture if:

1. it doesn't get better as the run goes on

2. it hurts in a very specific spot when pressed firmly

3. it does not get better with a couple days off.

If it is a bsi (bone stress injury), it's not the end of the world. I have had one in my shin for a while, and I couldn't run for a couple months, but I cross trained my a$$ off and I am doing very well. I had signed up for a running camp and in the camp I am keeping up with some of the top runners in the state no problem.

One thing I have learned is that a lifting program with medium to lighter weights, but with reps completed explosively can help with strengthening bones. You already seem to be trying this so maybe cut back a bit on the weights.

1) I don't really notice it much at all when running. Occasionally i'll notice it only when ascending stairs.

2) This is what i'm not sure of. It hurts in a specific spot, but I've had shin pains that I took no time off for in the past hurt in a specific spot and they went away, and this doesn't hurt after to touch after some light massaging of the area and it doesn't hurt to touch if I'm dorsiflexing. There is also some weird knots 1-3 inches above the area of pain, where my calf muscle and shin bone (fibula?) connect. Those don't hurt, though.

3) I took 2 days off a few weeks ago when I was sick, and the pain was gone then after a couple days of running I noticed it again. I am going to keep running and try to mediate and heal this in the meantime, but if it gets worse I will take time off / go see sports med. But until then I'm going to keep going because it hasn't gotten any worse even with workouts and stuff.

Thank you for your input, though. I will keep the thread updated.

Week ending in 07/15

Sunday: AM 15k road race tempo in 54:30. Splits: 6:10, 6:01, 5:42, 5:48, 5:43, 5:51, 5:50, 5:56, 5:50, last .3 5:32 pace.

PM 1300 yards swimming

Monday: 8.2 miles @ 7:33 pace on treadmill + lifting + ultimate frisbee

Tuesday: 5x1000m @ CV pace with 200m jog rest. 3:27, 3:28, 3:29, 3:29, 3:28

Did 4x100m barefoot in the infield after in 14.5, 14.3, 13.7, 13.5

Wednesday: 8.5 miles @ 7:07 pace + Lifting + 1000 yards swimming

Thursday: 8.1 miles @ 7:39 pace

Friday: Off

Saturday: AM 4x300m, 4x200m, 4x100m (barefoot in grass for 100m reps)

49, 48, 47.5, 48

30.7, 32.5, 30.5, 30.1

13.7, 13.7, 13.5, 13.3

1:30-2:00 rest.

PM 4.3 miles @ 7:46 pace

Week total: 55 miles running, 1.3 miles swimming

The race on Sunday was one where I set my PR of 52:40 the year before. Nice weather, just ran comfortably hard for most of the way. took 2nd place but didn't want to dig hard to get first, just wanted to get a long tempo in.

Tuesdays workout was really humid. The most humid day of running i've experienced this year. And I'm sure I was a little tired from Sunday, so the workout was sub par. My goal was 6-8x1000m under 3:30 but I only managed 5 of them before I decided to cut it. Did my usual barefoot strides after.

Ended up taking Friday off just because I was really busy and haven't had a day off in awhile, so it fit well. Saturdays workout was just to keep in touch and feel comfortable running at paces that are normally really uncomfortable. I felt good. Not really any lactic acid buildup, just some heavy breathing.

Mileage has been building nicely, just need to work on getting out the door for doubles more often. Thats the toughest thing for me right now.

Best wishes for your quest.

Just a quick note re lactic acid -- in my lay view the research has shown that lactate is not responsible for the burn and performance degradation associated with continued anaerobic work. Lactate is benign and in fact is a fuel for muscle activity. Rather, it is acid byproducts (lactate isn't even acidic at body pH) that are responsible for the burning feeling and impairment of performance.

That said, the build-up of lactate is correlated with the build-up of those harmful acid by-products of anaerobic respiration. So it's probably a matter of semantics more than anything -- even if the negative press lactate has received isn't deserved, the build-up of lactate is correlated with harmful acid byproducts, so calculations like lactate threshold have validity.

TO is good running wrote:

Best wishes for your quest.

Just a quick note re lactic acid -- in my lay view the research has shown that lactate is not responsible for the burn and performance degradation associated with continued anaerobic work. Lactate is benign and in fact is a fuel for muscle activity. Rather, it is acid byproducts (lactate isn't even acidic at body pH) that are responsible for the burning feeling and impairment of performance.

That said, the build-up of lactate is correlated with the build-up of those harmful acid by-products of anaerobic respiration. So it's probably a matter of semantics more than anything -- even if the negative press lactate has received isn't deserved, the build-up of lactate is correlated with harmful acid byproducts, so calculations like lactate threshold have validity.

Thank you.

And I am aware that lactic acid is a fuel and not actually what is causing all the burn and slow down, but it's all related and its just easier to say that when I'm speaking of effort than it is to get super technical.

Week ending in 07/22

Sunday: Hard 5k tempo in 16:45 then 10 miles @ 6:20 pace. 16 total on the day.

Monday: 8 miles easy @ 7:31 pace half on trails + light lift.

Tuesday: AM 5.3 miles @ 6:58 pace

PM 6x70m hill sprints

Wednesday: Medium long run 10.6 miles @ 6:40 pace. Last few miles low 6 pace.

Thursday: 2.7 miles @ 7:24 pace, swimming 1000yds, 4.5 miles @ 7:23

Friday: Afternoon 2.4 miles @ 7:30 pace.

Evening 6x1000m @ CV pace, 200m jog rest.

3:28, 3:25, 3:25, 3:22, 3:20, 3:16.

Saturday: 8.5 miles @ 7:42 pace on treadmill + Lifting

Week total: 70.4 miles running, .6 miles swimming

There was a local half marathon on Sunday. I was originally going to race this back when I was making my summer plan on May, but my mileage hasn't gone as expected so I just decided to go get a workout in as I don't think I'm ready to race a half marathon. My former teammate and current triathlete, who is a much better distance runner than I, was racing the half marathon so I decided I'd run a solid 5k with him then just finish the half marathon at a smooth pace to get a long run in. I ran around 5:25 pace for the first 5k and I wish I would have went farther but I mentally gave up. But it was still a good effort, and the 10 miler afterword was at a decent effort too.

The hill sprints were pretty standard. Need to get back into doing those more often.

The medium long run was a run I'm really happy with. It was a very warm and humid day but I kept a decent pace, even on a kind of hilly loop.

The CV pace 1000m reps were great too. I waited until the temperature dropped to run the workout. I started out holding back but it still felt easy to run around 3:20 pace even with the short jogging rest. I could have done a couple more under 3:20 pace if I wanted but I cut it short there just so I don't dig myself into a hole.

Overall I'm happy with the week. I got some sprints and lifting in, a hard tempo and a long tempo, and some cruise intervals and mileage. Going to try for 70ish miles next week too. Lower leg thing isn't perfect but hasn't gotten worse and feels a little better still. I think it's a tendon and not the bone, but I'm not sure.

Nice week!

It looks like you're treating the long runs as workouts, which is good. The CV intervals are good too. One thing that may be useful is that I don't think you should have too many long runs. There should be one hard long run, with other slightly shorter efforts at the same pace.

e.g. for every two weeks, you have a 4mi @ 5:40, a 12mi @ 6:20, two 8mi @ 6:10. Those are your high-end aerobic runs. The rest of your miles are from easy runs and randomly interspersed interval workouts. Keep the CV, it's great! Also touch on your speed a little with 10x200 @ 29 or so with 2-3min recovery. These workouts shouldn't be hard.

I have an important question for you: When do you want to peak? This is essential because you need to periodize your training.

http://tinyurl.com/4x6obmj

That's a good read about how to structure your season. It's Renato Canova's methods and philosophies compiled into a concise document. I've actually spent a couple of weeks making my own training system that's a bit of a variation on Canova with a bit of Tinman thrown in.

I've posted on here with a lot of different stuff over the past few months, so don't take my word as hard truth in everything (i'm still figuring things out!) But remember I don't pull stuff out of my a55, so at least consider some of my ideas.

Thanks, and I'm looking forwards to seeing how you progress. My running is mediocre at best now (getting over injury), so I'm sort of living vicariously through others on the forum.

@Alabama runner

I don't have a super specific peak planned for this fall. I will likely run a couple cross country races and maybe find a fast road 5k or something to run. I may also run a mid distance time trial or two on the track for fun. My main goal of this summer and fall is to build up a big base and give myself more of the tools I need to train well in the winter and spring. I will likely take a small break in October then get back into it with training geared more towards the mile and 800.

I really like Canova's ideas, the problem is that it's just hard to follow and periodize everything. The special period moving into the specific period is tough to follow because I don't understand how exactly the percentages work. If there was a plan that just said "do this workout then" then I would love it. I do like his ideas, especially in the fundamental phase. I also really like Tinman, especially the emphasis on aerobic training, even for mid distance runners. Canova's training is what has inspired me to add in some easy track workouts into my summer schedule.

Thank you for following along! I'll post my next weeks training tomorrow!

Week ending in 07/29

Sunday: AM 10 miles @ 7:48 pace

PM 3 miles @ 7:10 pace

Monday: AM 5 miles easy + 1050 yds swimming

PM 6x80m hill sprints

Tuesday: 5 miles @ 7:28 pace + Dynamics, strides and drills

Wednesday: AM 1.8 mile shakeout

PM 5k race in 16:15

Thursday: 8.2 miles @ 7:40 pace. Half on trails

Friday: 8.5 miles @ 7:30 pace + Lifting + Swimming 1200 yds

Saturday: 8 miles @ 5:57 pace

Week total: 65.2 milles running, 1.3 miles swimming

All in all this ended up being a pretty good week. I attempted to do a long run on Sunday and ended up having one of the worst runs I've had in a very long time. Couldn't get below 7:40 pace. Cut it at 10 miles and did a run in the evening that I felt much better for.

Decided to do hill sprints monday since I had a race on wednesday and I wanted to wake up my body since I had a terrible run on Sunday.

Wednesday race went pretty well, too. It was at 7pm so the sun wasn't terrible, but it was still a little warm out. Certainly manageable though. The course was rolling but nothing too bad. My splits were 5:04, 5:20, 5:22 and I really pushed that middle mile the best I could. I took 2nd overall and the only guy who beat me is a local stud and 2x olympic marathon trials qualifier. I was only 5 seconds off my PR but my PR was run on an easier course, in better weather and with more competition so I'm really happy with this performance. Especially considering I ran my first 70 mile week in a long time in the week prior.

I created three different lifting workouts that I will alternate between every time I go to the gym. So I will cycle through all three of them 2 times every 15-16 days. I started with Lift #1 on Friday. I also swam right after lifting which was pretty hard.

The long tempo on Saturday went pretty well. The loop was a little hilly but manageable. I went faster than I was anticipating but that's okay. I didn't really have to dig too hard to keep it around 6:00 pace so that's good. The only goal was to not go too hard. I replaced this weeks CV workout with that 5k but I will be getting back into it next week. I think I'm going to attempt 1200m repeats at CV pace with the same rest instead of the usual 1000s.

updates?

You're the man bro. Looking at your times from freshman highschool to senior year college give me so much hope. I wish you the best, and will keep up with this thread.

RejectRunner wrote:

You're the man bro. Looking at your times from freshman highschool to senior year college give me so much hope. I wish you the best, and will keep up with this thread.

Thank you man. I hope everyone can see that you can likely achieve times greater than you ever believed you could if you just string together smart and hard training. I sure as heck didn't think I'd ever run under 1:55 in my lifetime, let alone 1:52.

As for updates, I'm kind of injured. I can still run, but that thing that was bothering my shin hasn't went away. I took 10 days off and saw a sports med doctor. I forget what the actual term for it was but he basically just told me I need to roll and massage that area more and that I could keep running if I wanted to. So after I hit 10 days off I started back up. I'm only on week 2 of my 'startup' and have only been running 5-6 miles a day, most of it easy pace. Ran around 6:00 pace a few times. I just finished up a summer internship and I have moved back home now for the time being, so hopefully I will have a little extra time to recover my leg while I'm job hunting. I'm wondering if all the trail running I did over the summer aggravated whatever is wrong with my leg. Hard to say. But there's no trails around where I live right now, just dirt, tar and chip, and asphalt roads. I'm just going to keep running a bit and try to be better about rolling, heating, icing, etc the area of pain. I have a follow-up with the doctor sometime in the middle of September, about 6 weeks after I first went, so hopefully if its not better by then we will have some answers. I'm just really annoyed. I was in 5k PR shape over the summer and my mileage wasn't even that crazy, nor were my workouts.

Sorry to hear. From what I've quickly looked of your training, it seemed that you did quite decent mileage with frequent workouts, even a couple of races, and did you have really down weeks? And/or rest days, these could be helpful as well in the future. And are you sure that your easy runs are easy enough? Many 800m runner is considerably slower on easy runs than longer distance runners. Good luck and try to analyze this and learn from it. I usually was very far away from race shape during base phase, but did my acceleration-top speed sessions weekly in order to keep the speed among with some other benefits behind those, during the base phase. Focusing on basic qualities during base, and repeatable training with down weeks/days off if needed was the key for me to stay injury free almost completely, I think.

Alas, in the grand scheme of things, my mileage wasn't very high during past base phase. I reached 70mpw once but on average I was only around 55mpw. I try to make sure most of my true easy mileage is pretty slow. I was doing 2-3 workouts a week but they weren't super difficult workouts. Just CV pace mostly, with some longer runs near 6:00 pace. I think I got my injury from running a lot on trails, some of which were moderately technical, and doing a lot of hill sprints. Looking back at my running log, I did have a few various weeks that were only about 40 miles, which I considered down weeks.

Posting here for the first time in a while. Back in August I took 10 days completely off from running and basically any activity because of my shin. During that time I saw a specialist who basically just told me its a form of shin splint, affecting the soleus between my tibia and large calf muscle, which is uncommon but can certainly happen. I attribute it to a lot of running on uneven ground such as trails.

I have since returned to running. I have done some workouts here and there and have comfortably returned to 40-50mpw in singles mostly. My goal is to keep primarily running singles until about 60-65mpw becomes comfortable, then i'll double into the 70's. As for workouts, I'm just doing a slew of base phase type stuff. Long runs every 10ish days, steady runs, fartleks, and tempos with some sprints sprinkled in. I've been doing core but I haven't lifted since mid august. I will be starting that back up here soon, too.

I've decided to make my first goal race a turkey trot on a fast course, since I feel like I will be able to crack under 16 there off of just this base phase and then I can start the transition to vo2 work with some 800-mile pace work sprinkled in and some harder tempo efforts, because I would really like to run fast for indoor season.

I'll start traditionally posting again at the end of the week