My quest for sub 1:50 in the 800m

I am also chasing sub150, this is my first season of training in about 3 years and managed to get just under 2 with basically only workouts (IT band wont allow me to run distance runs). After this season I plan on taking about 2 weeks off completely to heal and then a week of easy running to get back into it. My 400 pr is just under 50 but I have never put it more than about 20 miles a week. This summer I will be working between 40-50 mpw. Goodluck to you!

I'm about to finish my freshman year of college running and my progression has been almost identical to yours down to the exact times (plateau'd at 2:07-8, ran 2:05.high once, 54.high relay split) after running about the same times as you my senior year of high school (55.x, 2:06, 4:55). I'm planning my summer/fall training right now. Every coach that I've had has told me that I ought to be running sub 1:55 the way I look, but my training has always been 25-35mpw of just easy running and hard 200/300/400s two or three days a week.

Can you explain to me what your training looked like before your senior year and how it contrasted with the summers before your junior year? It seems like the mileage was similar, but clearly you did something different. I don't want to have wait until my senior year to figure it out and feel regret for what could have been.

Thanks.

You should click the link to that thread I linked above. It has very detailed training from that summer all the way through to my track season.The biggest differences I made from Junior to Senior year was an increase and mileage and tempo type running. Summer before my junior year I ran 50-60mpw but mostly easy and I only ran one short 3-4 mile tempo once a week. Summer before senior year I started doing a lot more doubles so I could hit 70mpw somewhat consistently. I also ran more tempos, but I also made sure they weren't too hard and were longer. I'd often go for 5-7 mile tempos at low 6 minute pace instead of 3 mile tempos at 5:45 pace. So basically I worked on my endurance a lot. Really easy pace for my easy runs (around 7:30) and 2-3 tempo type runs a week of around 5:55-6:15 pace. (sometimes they'd be fartleks or progression runs, but basically the goal was to improve my top end endurance). I was also very good about lifting over the summer. I'd go twice a week and I'd bench, squat, do pull ups and a lot of various core / hip work one day, then I'd incline bench, deadlift, pullups and a lot of other various core work. I think this helped me maintain the mileage without getting hurt and I think lifting helps tremendously with speed and 800m training. I also would do hill sprints, something like 6-8x8 second all out hill sprints of a decently steep hill.Do you run XC? I think you should focus on increasing your mileage a little but and work on your endurance. Lift, do strides and some hill sprints to keep in touch and possibly even improve your speed.Read the thread I linked early in the original post to see what I did week by week.

sub150.0 wrote:

I am also chasing sub150, this is my first season of training in about 3 years and managed to get just under 2 with basically only workouts (IT band wont allow me to run distance runs). After this season I plan on taking about 2 weeks off completely to heal and then a week of easy running to get back into it. My 400 pr is just under 50 but I have never put it more than about 20 miles a week. This summer I will be working between 40-50 mpw. Goodluck to you!

You should really work on strengthening your hips and whatever else is causing the ITBS. Your speed is plenty good enough for sub 1:50, you just gotta up the mileage and work on endurance and I think you can do it. Good luck to you too!

Ya, I have cut out the easy runs and been doing hip and leg strengthening exercise instead. Pretty much 3 workouts a week and an easy 20 minutes if I can. 3 weeks left in the season then I am making sure im healed before starting base!

I looked through the thread and I see what you're talking about. What was the jump from 40 to 60-70 like? It seems in the other thread you had no problem getting up all the way to 80 a couple weeks, but you had already done a couple of 60 mile weeks during your junior year. Were you simply not strong enough your junior year to get up to 65+ mpw and do 5+ mile tempos, or were you just unaware that that was what you were supposed to be doing?

Over the winter I ran pretty consistent 40 mile weeks including three track workouts and three lifting sessions. I won't be doing much heavy lifting over the first half of the summer as I won't have access to a gym and obviously won't be doing any hard anaerobic workouts either. Really what I'm wondering is whether I can gun for it this summer, or whether I need spend my sophomore year just getting accustomed to running a decent level of mileage so I can try to make the leap coming into my junior year.

Well running around 60mpw was a lot for me my junior year. I was doing a bit more (and with more consistency) than I was my sophomore year. I might not have been strong enough but I didn't try, because I was already in new territory training wise. I could have been doing more tempos my junior year though, that's for sure.And it's fine if you can't lift heavy all summer. Work on a lot of core and hip work since you can't lift. Maybe look for some drills and plyos to do. Doing the little things consistently can make a big difference over time. And I'm not sure what you mean by "really gun for it" this summer. I wouldn't recommend jumping to 70 mpw if you're only used to 40, but you could likely work your way up to 55-60 if you're smart with training. I would have never been able to hit 60 for the first time without doubling 2-3 times a week, just 4 miles easy in the mornings. And I certainly would not have been able to hit 70+ with doubles. Ideally I tried to double as many days as possible, even if it was only 2-3 miles a lot of mornings.

This was a classic thread. Hope it helps!

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719

Cheers,

Toastie

I'll try to hit 55-60 with plenty of tempos, hill sprints, and strides. If you keep this thread alive I'll check in with monthly updates.

Good luck on your quest. I'm excited to see what comes of it.

Your prior thread was excellent, and I look forward to following your 800 progress.

predictor: thank you.

Avantist: I look forward to hearing your progress. Good luck to you

Toastie: I've read through some of that thread. It has a lot of good information, but I think the thing I took most from what I read of that thread was how different everyone trained at that level. There was the low mileage speedy guys, the guys who were running 80+ miles a week and everyone in between. My goal is to try to emulate things that I know helped me in the past while trying to fix some of my recent mistakes.

I'm not finished with my first week yet but running has been going well. I mean I'm only trying to run 25-30 miles for my first week back so it's been going as well as it can go for a first week back haha.

Week ending in: 05/06

I'll be posting recent races or time trials in the top section of my posts, but since this is my first week of this training block I won't have a race to post anytime too soon, just boring training haha.

Sunday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 5.3 miles @ 7:43 pace

Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 3 miles easy @ 7:20 pace + 2x200m with my buddy in 35 and 32. Did hurdle drills as well

Tuesday AM 2 miles @ 7:40 pace

Wednesday AM 2 miles @ 7:35 pace

PM 3 miles @ 6:23 pace. (7:30, 6:10, 5:57)

Thursday PM 3 miles @ 7:31 pace

Friday PM 6.2 miles @ 7:25 pace + core

Saturday AM 2 miles @ 7:38 pace

PM 2.7 miles @ 7:33 pace + core

Week Total: 33 miles

Not a bad first week. The goal was to only run around 30 miles give or take a few. I didn't plan on those 200's but my buddy wanted a partner so I joined him for some glorified strides. I also didn't plan on the tempo but I just felt really good and it happened. Also, when I list core I usually focus on hips and do some lower back, ab and glute work too. I'm working on consistency with my doubles. I'll work those up to 20 minute runs as a minimum soon. My goal for this next week is to be somewhere in the 40's for mileage. Probably mostly all short runs with one or two longer ones on nice days (it's been raining relentlessly all week here). I've been doing my heel drops for my achilles almost every day. 3 sets of 15 twice a day. Slowly been increasing weight. I feel like it helps but the achilles is still tender. We'll see how that progresses. I'll likely start lifting again sometime in late may and just focus on core type stuff for now. Also, no structured workouts until June. Just mileage building.

Try to improve the quality of your mileage, keep it at 5.50 to 6.25 mile pace and you will see a big change in your PR

Cheers

kipko wrote:

Try to improve the quality of your mileage, keep it at 5.50 to 6.25 mile pace and you will see a big change in your PR

Cheers

Once I get to 60+ mpw in June my plan is to add on 2-3 different tempo type runs a week. Trying to run all my mileage at marathon pace will destroy me. I tend to do better with high mileage at a modest easy pace with a lot of tempoish type work mixed in.

Week ending in: 5/13

I apologize in advance for this garbage week.

Sunday AM 2.7 miles @ 7:46 pace

PM 4.5 miles @ 6:20. Split (7:10, 6:40, 6:08, 6:00, 6:02)

Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 1.9 miles @ 7:20 pace

Tuesday Off

Wednesday PM 3 miles @ 7:25 pace

Thursday AM 2 miles @ 7:45 pace

PM 5 miles @ 6:56 pace

Friday Off

Saturday AM 8.1 miles @ 6:45 pace

PM 2.7 miles @ 7:30 pace

Week total: 32 miles in 5 days

I'm a bum and took two days off this week, which I am unhappy about, but it is only my second week back. I had some prior obligations and running took the back burner, but I am already doing better with it this week which is good. I've done core a couple days this past week, and have been focusing on my hips as well. I have also been running on trails more and hopefully that will strengthen my lower legs and feet pretty well as well as save me from some of the impact of running.

Week ending in 5/20:

Sunday AM 4 miles easy @ (7:50)

PM 4.2 miles easy on trails @ (7:37) + Core/Hips

Monday AM 2.5 miles easy @ (7:36)

PM 4.3 miles easy on trails @ (7:12)

Tuesday PM 4.8 miles easy on trails @ (7:40)

Wednesday AM 2 miles easy @ (7:30)

PM 5 miles of warmup + cooldown. Hill sprints and drills. (Will detail below)

Thursday PM 6.2 miles easy on trails (7:38)

Friday AM 3.2 miles easy @ (7:28)

PM 4.8 miles on trails (7:05). Pushed the steep hills

Saturday AM 3 miles easy (7:31)

PM 4.3 miles easy @ (6:58)

Week total: 48 miles

Feeling pretty good. Doubles have been coming along better and I am starting to enjoy running in the mornings more (still not a fan, though). I will be increasing the mileage this next week to somewhere in the 50's before taking my first down week the week after, then I will build into the 70's for the next cycle. I am also going to start adding in strides more often as my achilles has been improving.

The hill workout was up a pretty steep hill (between 10-15% grade) and was only 40m in length. I did a sprint, high skips, high knees, sprint, bounding, A skips, sprint, left leg hop, right leg hop, and sprint. So, 4 sprints and 6 different drills, all up the hill. Single leg hops and high knees were probably the most difficult, and my left leg (leg with the achilles problems) is certainly weaker than my right. My achilles wasn't particularly sore after this which is promising. Need to work on doing core/hip stuff more often, though.

Is there a reason you are doubling at such low mileage? I totally get the need to double when you reach 60-65+, but I think anything 55mpw and below, you are losing out on the potential benefits of just longer easy runs. I would argue that a sustained effort of 7 miles is better for aerobic conditions than a 3/4 double. You just aren't sustaining your heart rate and breathing pattern for a sufficient length of time compared to the longer single run. I always though the philosophy was that you should go on all singles until you feel like you can recover and/or start doing workouts in addition to your easy runs. If I were you, I would try to do at least up to 50mpw consistently on singles or with as few doubles as possible. Also, no long run....or did I miss something? I saw your mention of your achilles issues so if that is the reason for your short doubles then I maybe could understand it more since you would just be doing what is best. However, I would still really try to do longer single runs...whether you have to find softer ground or whatever.

Most of the time, the benefit of easy runs is for economy and recovery. Real benefit comes from tempos and long runs. For getting the most recovery miles in, it is best to do doubles. I do agree with you that it is unconventional to do doubles at such low mileage.

In the OP's case, I think he wants to increase mileage fairly quickly above 60mpw, so he wants to get used to running doubles because he will need them later.

Alabama runner hit the nail on the head. This is only my third week back and I will be getting (hopefully) into the 70's in June. I am doubling now so I can stay consistent with it, and so increasing mileage is much easier. I am just doing some runs right now without much structure, and that will start in June. I just want to get consistent with doubling now and so far it's been working. I'm about to start up lifting again too. This is only the first few weeks of a 20-24ish week cycle.