Official 2017 London Marathon Live Discussion Thread

Forcing down a carb drink repeatedly is no way to optimize, especially on a very cool day.

Gotyourdrink wrote:

Bekele definitely lost ground here. Improve the 4x elite drinks stations and you can cut 30s+ I reckon

https://twitter.com/iginge/status/856111375399124996

30+ seconds? Dream on. Your video shows KB losing maybe .5 seconds.

But there are 4x of these on the course. This kind of confusion happens so often

Amazing stuff from the 3 royals giving out medals to finishers!

I am totally devastated. When I woke up this morning, I expected that I would at least see that Bekele won. But not only was he second, not only was it because he was essentially out-kicked, but it was in a 2:05-mid-to-high race. WTF? Life is losing its meaning. I can't make sense of this. What happened? Did he become injured during the race?

elmore345 wrote:

Amazing stuff from the 3 royals giving out medals to finishers!

Little people.

devastated man wrote:

I am totally devastated. When I woke up this morning, I expected that I would at least see that Bekele won. But not only was he second, not only was it because he was essentially out-kicked, but it was in a 2:05-mid-to-high race. WTF? Life is losing its meaning. I can't make sense of this. What happened? Did he become injured during the race?

The 14.11 opening 5k might have played a part.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Marathons take a long time, you don't have to pay that close attention

// short attention span

Stick with the 40 yard dash.

The Scot wrote:

devastated man wrote:

I am totally devastated. When I woke up this morning, I expected that I would at least see that Bekele won. But not only was he second, not only was it because he was essentially out-kicked, but it was in a 2:05-mid-to-high race. WTF? Life is losing its meaning. I can't make sense of this. What happened? Did he become injured during the race?

The 14.11 opening 5k might have played a part.

Fair enough, although I would think that'd still be in his wheelhouse, even in a marathon.

I think we need to see serious discussion of Wanjiru's and Keitany's training. Canova is always stressing a focus on training, so here's his chance to redeem himself and shine.

Wanjiru did the marathon-version of out-kicking Bekele in a 2:05 race, which should not be treated lightly. Keitany's performance was other-worldly, and she's been on another level for a while. What does their training look like?

And while we're at it, what does Bekele's training look like these days?

He's 35 years old and been running at a world class level for the past 18 years. He has multiple Olympic gold medals, world record, and a competitive winning record in World Cross that nobody has come close to. A close loss in a major marathon isn't unexpected given the place he is in his career.

Time obsessed LR's go home devastated. Why so 'slow'?

asdfdgjdfgrg wrote:

Helah Kiprop's last 2.2k took 10:21. I guess it was a bit rough for her.

She ran a Helah 'a race.

Sam wrote:

4:27 for the 27th mile.

I can do my comment on the race of today.

I'm not surprised for the WR of Mary : during the last two days, I explained to many journalists that she was in the best shape of her life (I saw some training on track in Iten in February and March), and that a final time under 2:17 was possible. Already one month ago, in Kampala, during the WCCCh, I told her manager (Gianni Demadonna) that Mary, if able to maintain the same condition, could do something unbelievable in London.

However, analysing HOW she did this record, I have to say that she was yet stronger than what I supposed.

In the first organization for the race, when still there was the idea to see a duel between Mary and Jemima Sumgong, the pacers had to be Peris Jepchirchir (World HM Champion), managed by Gianni Demadonna (manager of Mary), and Sarah Chepchirchir (winner in Tokyo with 2:19), managed by Federico Rosa (manager of Jemima). When there was the new about Jemima's doping, the organizers recused Sarah Chepchirchir, and at the same time Peres had an injury, so Mary didn't have any pacers. Since I'm helping the husband of Caroline Chepkoech Kipkirui to become a coach, I suggested to put as rabbit Caroline herself till HM, for running in 68:00. Really, she had a wonderful job, running well ahead of HM, and maintaining a very much faster pace (66:54 at HM).

In this way, the two halves were 66:54 and 70:07, with the last 17 km totally alone. I think that a more even pace (67:30 at HM) and the help of a pacer till the end (how Paula had during the record of 2:15:25), Mary could have run around 2:15, bettering the mixed record too.

About Tirunesh Dibaba, all my friends working in Ethiopia, somebody directly with her (the coach Haji, and the physio Jeroen Deen), told me she was in great shape, ready to improve her PB of 3 minutes without any doubt (why sometimes there is somebody joining Tirunesh with Jama Aden ? Jama never had anything to do with Tirunesh, who was in Sabadell only for running a race of 10000m on track needing the limit for Olympics last year).

After the race, I can say that both of them have the possibility to attack the WR of Paula Radcliffe (2:15:25), with a smart pacing from a man and good race conditions (for example, in Berlin or Dubai).

Going to the men, I can speak for Kenenisa and for Abel Kirui, not about other athletes. I told many journalists who asked my previews before the race that Kenenisa, really, was not ready, because could not start running again till the end of February (due to the injury he had falling down at the start in Dubai, that became very bad after running for 20 km with pain and out of balance). Not running, Kenenisa increased his weight of 5 kg, so the training he had to do during the most part of March had the goal not to create specific endurance, but to lose weight. For example, we put in his training (I prepare his training plan, and discuss with Asrat Mersha, his local coach, the best approach) long run of 2 h 30, with the first 1 h 30' very easy (about 4' > 3'50" per km) and the last hour of fartlek (20 times 1' fast / 1' easy + 20 times 30" / 30"), because for Kenenisa is extremely important to have good feeling with a speed a little faster than the speed of the race.

Never I put some of the training I normally use (for example, 5 x 5 km in 14'45" with 1 km recovery in 3'25" / 3'30") for increasing the specific endurance, but some long session on track (2 x 3000 + 3 x 2000 + 5 x 1000 + 6 x 500m) at good speed (not far from the specific speed) with recovery walking, in order to create the feeling with the technical way of running at that identified speed.

In other words, I used a system very different from the system I normally use, every day changing plan after receiving the feedback from Mersha, looking at the best solution at the moment, but without a real long term plan.

What I said (and several newspaper showed the interviews I had) is that, with the current training of Kenenisa, NO ATHLETES IN THE WORLD COULD RUN UNDER 2:10, but, being Kenenisa, I supposed possible a time between 2:05 and 2:06.

So, for who knows the real situation, the race of Kenenisa is another demonstration that he has a so strong mind that never can be compared with any other athletes under this point of view. His threshold of pain, his ability to read inside his body for understanding how far can be from his limites, are qualities that only he as at that level, and probably are the reason because he is an absolute extraclass runner.

My idea, after the race of today, is that Kenenisa, IF able to follow an adequate training plan for marathon lasting 5 months, can run near 2:01 in ideal conditions. The real question is : will Kenenisa in the future to have this opportunity ? His engine, and his mind, are still at the top of the world. Is his body still at the top ? Is his motivation still at the top ? Are his stimuli still at the top ? In this case, no doubt that with him and Eliud Kipchoge we have two athletes who are 2 minutes ahead the rest of the World.

Abel Kirui was arguably in the same shape of Chicago, and had a very honest race. Maybe he could have finish in third position (his duel with Karoki depended on very few seconds only), but the first two were stronger, and he was able to arrive ahead the World Champion (Ghirmay Ghebrselassie), the Olympic silver (Feysa Lilesa), the winner of Dubai (Tesfaye Abera) and Tilahun Regassa, all runners younger them him and with faster PB. His race was exactly what I expected.

Last consideration : I think the tactic of Mary Keitany was influenced by the recent WR of Joyceline Jepkosgei in HM, with a crazy race that brought the athlete to better in official way the WR of 15 km, and in unofficial way the best performance of 10 km (running 17" faster than Paula Radcliffe in a competition on the specific distance). When I asked Joyceline why she used a so suicidal tactic, she told me "since I don't know my limits, I always start very fast, so I discover when I go to die". And I'm sure that, after a day like today, for the top women the marathon approach will be more aggressive, since many athletes can now look at same split no longer with fright, but as a normal interpretation of the longest Olympic distance.

LM wrote:

1) Everyone was slow today. Possibly a result of that first 5k. But I think we've gone out that fast before at London and people have finished a bit faster

The Scot wrote:

The 14.11 opening 5k might have played a part.

devastated man wrote:

Fair enough, although I would think that'd still be in his wheelhouse, even in a marathon.

That's 1:59:42 pace.

As usual, many thanks for your comments.

As usual, my apologies for the brain dead teenagers of LetsRun.

Wejo/Rojo: clear all the garbage in this thread and highlight this post and this post only.

I think I m more impressed by the Caroline Chepkoech Kipkirui 66':54" first half

all alone in front of everybody to push , then the absolutely amazing Keitanty performance.

Is that 66'54" Caroline Chepkoech Kipkirui half Marathon personal best?

Hmmmm not bad doing it as a pacer!!!!

If somebody pace for her , in a fast half she s another kenian runner that can break once again the world record.........

bluesky wrote:

I think I m more impressed by the Caroline Chepkoech Kipkirui 66':54" first half

all alone in front of everybody to push , then the absolutely amazing Keitanty performance.

Is that 66'54" Caroline Chepkoech Kipkirui half Marathon personal best?

Hmmmm not bad doing it as a pacer!!!!

If somebody pace for her , in a fast half she s another kenian runner that can break once again the world record.........

So Bekele basically misses one month with NO running, gains 5kg, and then gets back into 2:05 shape in 6 weeks, with less a focus on specific training but more on losing weight.

Which, if I recall, was very much like what the situation was last year. Not bad finishing second under those circumstances.