Road Racing and Training Thread- Week Ending April 16, 2017

starting to put some ideas together for my next training cycle, was wondering if anyone has any variations of strides they like that gets some good bang for your buck without it turning into a workout at the end of an easy day. Was thinking of something like 60-70min run followed by 2 sets of 5x200 or 300m at 3k to 5k pace trying to learn to keep it feeling relaxed and efficient and just used as supplemental work. Also planning on 10sec hill sprints on a separate easy day. 300-200-100 sounds like it could be fun too

Smoove wrote:

Both are very likely candidates. The only reason I focus so much on electrolytes is that I also get other weird cramping issues. My feet, lats, pecs and triceps tend to cramp pretty frequently too. But I definitely have very weak glutes and stabilizers, and everything is tight.

I think I will take some time this training cycle to do some low intensity strength training. It cannot hurt.

It sounds like you could use some massage therapy.

Since winter I've been a big fan of plugging my strides right into the run. So in the last 10 to 20 minutes, I'll start doing the sets and determine how many of them based on feel.

I split the strides and recovery by time, so I usually do :20 of stride and 1:40 of recovery, or 30/90.

If I'm feeling tired and sluggish I can still do 6 and end up feeling quite good. Other days I do more, with 12 generally being the max.

I like throwing them into the run like this because you can do them anywhere, going uphill or downhill or even through some tight turns. And the time rather than the distance makes it easier for me to really just cruise and focus on form.

Curious to hear how others do it. It's so funny that you usually just see them written into programs like 10 x 80m or "8 strides", but you don't get a lot more detail on active v. standing rest or where to do them.

Learning curve-

On easy days I will sometimes do strides. 1-2 miles of sprint the straights and jog the curves. I love it. I have noticed a speedier finish in 5k's and 10k's as well.

I don't time the straights but I get on my toes and try to run as fast as possible while focusing on my form at the same time.

Interesting reading how shattered so many people are from this race when I feel pretty decent. Calves were a bit sore Tuesday and Wednesday but I feel pretty dang fresh at this point but I keep telling myself no running for a few more days. In retrospect it seems most of my "good" marathon performances have left me feeling fairly decent in the following days while my less than stellar ones left me crushed from a recovery standpoint. I honestly can't decide if that's a result of proper training for the course, proper pacing, or an indicator of not going deep enough into the well and leaving something on the course?

Working Harder wrote:

Interesting reading how shattered so many people are from this race when I feel pretty decent. Calves were a bit sore Tuesday and Wednesday but I feel pretty dang fresh at this point but I keep telling myself no running for a few more days. In retrospect it seems most of my "good" marathon performances have left me feeling fairly decent in the following days while my less than stellar ones left me crushed from a recovery standpoint. I honestly can't decide if that's a result of proper training for the course, proper pacing, or an indicator of not going deep enough into the well and leaving something on the course?

Tough questions here...perhaps unanswerable. I understand your need to find an answer. I recently ran a half marathon, not a PR but reasonably close, and it was a two-minute negative split. It was off of limited training and an IT band issue. I felt good and in control in the race. The big negative split, though, made me wonder if I had not left something on the course. In any case, I enjoyed the race.

Working Harder wrote:

Interesting reading how shattered so many people are from this race when I feel pretty decent. Calves were a bit sore Tuesday and Wednesday but I feel pretty dang fresh at this point but I keep telling myself no running for a few more days. In retrospect it seems most of my "good" marathon performances have left me feeling fairly decent in the following days while my less than stellar ones left me crushed from a recovery standpoint. I honestly can't decide if that's a result of proper training for the course, proper pacing, or an indicator of not going deep enough into the well and leaving something on the course?

I'm not real sure, but I have noticed the same thing with half marathons. My best hm's left me feeling great. I think it's because your body is fit and well prepared!

True, I'm not sure it can be answered but it's definitely a curiosity. Looking at some of my efforts and post race conditions:

First BQ ~3:03 Went in avg around 70mpw with a peak around 90mpw. I ran this one with a friend and I was in better shape. We ran to BQ, not to time trial. Ran the first 18 with him until he fell off and picked up the effort to finish strong. Split around 1:33, 1:30. Bit beat up but nothing bad.

Chicago 2015 - 2:55 pr Went out a bit hot (2:48 pace) but had a good pack to follow and thought I'd see if I could hang rather than running solo. Fell off around mile 18 but didn't collapse. Averaged 90mpw with a peak of around 105. I was pretty good the following days. Matter of fact, the apt I rented was on the second floor and stairs were no issue. I do not think I could have ran any better in that event.

Boston 2014 - avg 70 mpw (optimistic). I was doing more multisport training and therefore didn't put in quite the mileage running. I did some specific hill work but was absolutely shattered after that race. Took me a solid 8 weeks to fully recover and start feeling normal again. Ran 3:03 with a big positive split.

It's neat to look at the difference you felt in both 3:03's. It's definitely looking like the proper training and mileage is contributing to less soreness. I only have one marathon to look at, but I was very sore for 3 days and felt fine after that.

How big was your positive split in 2014 Boston?

I am feeling a lot better today myself. Tuesday and Wednesday, I was a wreck. Yesterday I had some serious IT band pain and a really tight hamstring, but the quads and calves were probably 70-80% recovered. Today, there is still a hint of the IT band issue, my calves are fine, my quads have some residual soreness, but the only major issue is the continued tight hamstrings. But for the IT band, I would give a shakeout tomorrow some consideration, but I really don't want the IT band to turn into a thing; so I will wait until Monday before considering a shakeout.

Chicago 2015 was probably a similar performance for me, but it left me more wrecked and for a much longer period of time; plus, my motivation to run was basically nil. I am kind of chomping at the bit to get going again right now.

Who knows, maybe one more marathon in my future . . .

Still have 8 weeks to Grandma's marathon. Haha.

Not by intention, but I'm getting just over 300 miles out of a pair of road shoes before I end up with overuse injuries (achilles, patellar tendon flareups). I run on the road and side of the road and limited rocky trails with the road shoes (Saucony Kinvara 7). Trail shoes are breaking down faster, either by abrasion of the upper (breaking through the sides with my wide feet repeatedly striking rocks), or breaking down the lugs (I've worn through to the rock plate in my Inov-8 Race Ultras in 250 miles). Last time I bought a pair of Saucony Peregrines I broke out both sides of the uppers on both shoes in under 70 miles. Return to sender. I'm too reckless and the terrain is too tough. I'd love to get 500 miles from a shoe but so far haven't been able to.

Pretty sure it was around 10 minutes.

Decided I'm going to stick with my original plan and shift focus a little bit now. I'll do some easy running starting Sunday and work to ramp back up over the next few weeks with all easy stuff. After bringing the mileage back up I'm going to work a decent block of 5k/10k focus while still keeping the mileage above 90mpw. I'd like to find a 5k/10k race within driving distance, but cooler temps, end of June and set a solid, tapered pr at either distance. I'd really like to see if I could flirt with mid 16s in a 5k as it's always been a long term goal of mine. After that I'll move to more focused work for this 100 miler end of September.

My plan is basically the same.. do a bunch of miles, and an occasional trail race or whatever, then do a 5k/10k training plan for fall when that race series kicks off.

I was thinking about dropping down and getting a fast 5K or 10K in May but I might ease up on the speed work after the half marathon Sunday and let the Achilles come back. I did a climbing trail run yesterday and it feels a bit worse this morning. PT scheduled the first week of May to get some analysis done. I did pick out an "easy" 40-mile ultra that coincides with an August conference in Boston, so that looks to be next on the schedule. Summer is going to be a matter of trying to get miles in while surviving the brutal heat that's already building (98 F high is the forecast Sunday). Baby coming in October so running plans are going to take a big hit on the priority list...

I like to plug strides into my run, too. I think the key is to not turn it into a workout -- be completely recovered for the next one. I like to use telephone poles, mailboxes, intersections, or road markings to set my start/stop. I should definitely do them more... Good for running economy and top-end speed. In HS we always used to either do them at a park 0.5 mile from school on the end of a medium run or in track we would do 150s, jogging or walking back to the top of the track (across the infield), taking as much time as we needed.

Can a high-drop shoe (say 10-12mm drop) put a load on the quads? That is a pretty tall heel, and one would seem to be leaning forward some. I have been wondering about this.

I am convinced that how you feel about your race performance greatly influences how you feel physically afterwards.

There are exceptions of course. but in general, if you cross the finish line enthused about how you did, I believe it makes recovery a bit easier.

Of course, that could be totally wrong!

Niceguy542007 wrote:

I am convinced that how you feel about your race performance greatly influences how you feel physically afterwards.

There are exceptions of course. but in general, if you cross the finish line enthused about how you did, I believe it makes recovery a bit easier.

Of course, that could be totally wrong!

In general, I think you are probably right.

I am thinking more in terms of both training and racing, and am wondering about quad load. I wore a higher drop shoe at NYC (12mm), and my quads cramped like crazy at about mile 20 (never had this problem in longer runs). I would have to check my log, but I think I wore the same shoe on a 16- or 18-miler prior to the race, at near marathon pace, with no discernible issues. Hence, my train of thought is that since low-drop shoes tend to stress the calves, perhaps high-drop shoes stress the quads.