Road Racing and Training Thread- Week Ending April 16, 2017

Finally jumping back in here. Has been a crazy few weeks with the taper, some travel, getting engaged, lots of family time, and finally the marathon on Monday.

Smoove, learningcurve, Angryjohnny, and others, congrats on your hard run races. It was a tough day out there so great job giving hard efforts and coming away with good runs. Hope your recoveries go smoothly.

Recap: I came into Boston feeling great, but perhaps not fully focused. My mileage wasn't as high as I'd hoped during my cycle but it was consistent between 50-60 a week. A new 1:19 HM PR four weeks ago gave me a lot of confidence, but I'd felt sluggish over the previous few weeks.

After the HM I adjusted my goal to sub-2:50 but on the day I scaled back to 2:53 given the conditions. I had a great morning leading to the start. I actually enjoyed the late gun time. Felt very prepared once I was in the coral. Getting going I settled into what felt comfortable. Hit 6:38, 6:31, 6:39 for the first three miles. I carried a 12-ounce water bottle and finished it during mile 4. But by then I knew it wasn't my day.

I was cramped from the start, sweating heavily. I quickly adjusted goals to sub-3, then qualifying, then just finish. Miles 4-8 I averaged just under 7 minute pace. By mile 9 I hit a full-blown wall. At that point, I phoned it in and did everything I could to make it to each course milestone. Jog-walked through to some friends watching at mile 15. Told them I was having a rough day and drank some Gatorade. Resolved to get to my family watching in Newton at mile 19 and a half. When I got there I was ready to call it. I sat for 55 minutes until my future father-in-law got there. He was struggling as well and so I made the choice to venture out with him to the finish. Hardest 11 minute miles I ever ran. Hit Boylston together and I crossed the line in 4:52.

Overall, I don't know what happened. I'm the first to admit I struggle with hydrating during marathons, and afterwards it was clear I was dehydrated. But I was drinking significantly, have trained extensively in hot weather, and was running at a pace that was not remotely taxing. So the weather and hydration doesn't explain why I was tanked from the beginning. I don't regret my training or preparation, and I'm proud of the decisions I made to get through the race and leave the day healthy and happy. Boston's an amazing race and the crowds and atmosphere are something I'll always remember.

I'm also happy with the training cycle. I earned a lifetime best PR (equivalence wise) with the 1:19 HM, had some of the best workouts of my life, and have a spot in the 2018 NYC Marathon if I want it. For now, time to recover and make plans for the next year. I definitely need to work on strength and flexibility and would like to focus on shorter races for a while.

Thanks for all the support here and look forward to continuing to stay involved.

Thinkaboutit - I can't doubt that we've all been in a race where we felt like you did. I give you a lot of credit for finishing out with your future father-in-law. Running a marathon for almost 5 hours while feel like chit is way harder than running hard for 3 hours and lacks the emotional reinforcement that you get from finishing close to what you think is possible. So seriously, big hats off to you. We know from your training and your HM that you're in lifetime PR shape so dust yourself off, recover, and get back out there. We'll be here. :-)

runrincerepeat wrote:

Ultra guys- when it comes to 50k to 50 miler is total weekly mileage more important that say really long runs on the weekend? Say I run 100-110 mpw w multiple 16 milers is that suffice for a 50 miler? and that includes one double like 16-12 with 4-5 hours rest.

I'm more of a believer in MPW. I haven't really done anything longer than 18 miles in my training in several years. That includes a 24-hour race and 2 hundreds (although one was my only DNF). I'd say most, not all, of the studly ultra dudes I know/follow tend to do 80 to 110 miles with 5,000 to 10,000 feet of vertical, with two or three 14 to 20 mile runs a week. They don't really do big back to backs. Some occasionally (once a month or so) do a bigger all-day sort of run. I think this trend was kinda started by Anton Krupicka. During his dominant stretch, he would basically do A.M./P.M. runs of 10 to 14 miles every day, then do one all-day run every 3 weeks or so.

This is not universal, I know Walmsley DOES do big runs in batches.

For me, back-to-back 20-milers are kinda pointless. They're not really long enough to put me in a true ultra "low-point" state and I have plenty of experience running on wrecked legs and my body knows how to burn all types of fuel. I also don't want to spend 8 hours away from my wife and kids on the weekend.

Think- It happens. Man props for finishing.. Mad Props. I would have probably said screw it and went looking for beer to drink and a shade tree.

Seriously considering hopping into another 26.2 sometime next month and chasing my 2:45. I feel pretty good and now I definitely know the fitness is (was) there for a crack at it. Anyone know what the time cut off for corral 1 and 2 was this year?

slo-twitch wrote:

I just saw that you mentioned Twin Cities too. That was my first marathon in 2014. If the logistics for that are easier than Philadelphia, I'd go for Twin Cities. Yes the gradual climb towards the end is not ideal, but I think the course is still equally fast asPhiladelphia. Plus if you don't have to travel I think that puts you at a huge advantage for a race. I would sign up for Twin Cities, then if the conditions on race day aren't ideal, just bail and go run Philadelphia in November. Registration doesn't close until like late October.

thanks, slo-twitch! I'm going to prepare as if I'm running Twin Cities. The logistics will be easier (since there basically wouldn't be any!), and I'd get a chance to train on different parts of the course often which could help. Also have a discounted rate through work and have until 3 weeks before the race to register so it's not a big commitment (besides training, of course!). Guess the madness will start all over beginning in May

I'm trying to train for a marathon as well, I just am having a very hard desire to want to do Grandma's or any marathon this year. I haven't signed up for it yet, I am still trying to find that inner motivation for it. I am really enjoying the shorter faster races right now.

Runn3rGirl wrote:

I'm trying to train for a marathon as well, I just am having a very hard desire to want to do Grandma's or any marathon this year. I haven't signed up for it yet, I am still trying to find that inner motivation for it. I am really enjoying the shorter faster races right now.

That course tho...

Runn3rGirl wrote:

I'm trying to train for a marathon as well, I just am having a very hard desire to want to do Grandma's or any marathon this year. I haven't signed up for it yet, I am still trying to find that inner motivation for it. I am really enjoying the shorter faster races right now.

Wish I could go! I would pace you to half. Hit a massive PR and drop out :)

Still have a bad taste in my mouth over that half. But it's motivating me to put in some big miles these next few months.

Is that photo from the Grandma's marathon? I know the two girls in the photo!

RRR- Pace me for 1:20, I would like to eventually do one sub 2:45. My first marathon was the most painful running experience ever.

Yeah, from... https://minneapolisrunning.com/5-reasons-to-register-for-grandmas-marathon-in-2017/

Ha if you are driving pick me up on the way! It's en route. At 1:20 pace by June I could go further than half pretty sure.

Ha if you are driving pick me up on the way! It's en route. At 1:20 pace by June I could go further than half pretty sure.

Runn3rGirl wrote:

Is that photo from the Grandma's marathon? I know the two girls in the photo!

RRR- Pace me for 1:20, I would like to eventually do one sub 2:45. My first marathon was the most painful running experience ever.

Why are you pacing for 1:20 if you want to run 2:45? That could lead to a painful experience...

I would like to run sub 2:45. The 1:20 gives a little room for error with bonking, nutrition issues, etc.

Definitely an aggressive way to run it - I'd shoot for a more even split too - but I understand the desire to bank at least a little bit of time. I have a guy I know who's going to split it at 1:19:30; but that's even faster than your already very aggressive goal split.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Runn3rGirl wrote:

Is that photo from the Grandma's marathon? I know the two girls in the photo!

RRR- Pace me for 1:20, I would like to eventually do one sub 2:45. My first marathon was the most painful running experience ever.

Why are you pacing for 1:20 if you want to run 2:45? That could lead to a painful experience...

I'd say take it out at 1:22 or maybe 1:23 with the first couple miles easing into pace.

slo-twitch wrote:

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Why are you pacing for 1:20 if you want to run 2:45? That could lead to a painful experience...

I'd say take it out at 1:22 or maybe 1:23 with the first couple miles easing into pace.

I agree, slo-twitch. Even 1:24 would be fine. Then kill it in the second half.

Have a great race...

1:24 is also counter productive.

Everything I've read says being that aggressive early compared to goal usually causes the bonk and nutrition issues more than it banks.

Think of it this way....the fastest way to run a race is to stay exactly at your aerobic threshold. If you go out too fast you're redlining even if you don't feel like it because you're burning predominately glycogen, and it will run out. If you go out at 1:24 you have to redline to make it home in time. Neither one is efficient (not including courses with wildly different elevation profiles front half to back half).