The emperor has no clothes: Jemima Sumgong has tested positive for EPO!!!

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Erhm, I wrote the opposite. Secondly, yes, poor people have more incentives to cheat. Doesn't mean rich people cheat too, but probably less. Less incentive. Not saying anything about culture or that some people are better than others, though its obvious that some nations are far worse than others. Italy and Spain seems to be far worse than Denmark for example.

Don't worry about what Wigand says, he's a complete MORAN:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4798549&page=4

Like I said, you're the court jester of armchair quarterbacks.

El Keniano wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Ooops. Must have been autocorrected.

Yeah, sure 😂 😉

It's as credible as all the rest of his explanations.

Don't be fooled by imposters. That was a quote from "rekrunnner" not "rekrunner".

Sprintgeezer wrote:

rekrunner: "Clearly Mr. Canova has more experience and expertise than all of us on this board combined."

Yes, more experience at dietrologia!

He's hardly original.

Experienced and logical posters who say friendly things like "rek-troll".Regarding when Jeptoo took EPO, I'm sure I would have said what was known at the time -- something like she was found positive in an out of competition test in Kenya, a country thought not to have out of competition testing, 2 weeks before Chicago.Her Boston race wasn't annulled until after the IAAF appeal, some two years later. There was also a statement that she hid the EPO use from her manager and coach, proving everyone wrong about Federico Rosa and Claudio Berardelli. She hid it from me too -- maybe also Renato.

casual obsever wrote:

Canova, and rek-troll, were also proven wrong with their nonsense claim that Jeptoo just started doping when she was caught. So much for them not having an agenda.

"hostile audience", rofl. Experienced and logical posters would be a more fitting description.

Renato, wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect that these same indirect effects could help well-trained athletes as well, irrespective of whether the epo is having a positive direct effect? The world-class athlete who believes he has a synthetic advantage seems just as likely as an untrained athlete to embark confidently on a more intense training regime than he may otherwise feel is possible. It doesn't seem like being born, raised, and trained at altitude would influence how an athlete perceives epo to help them; so, she is still benefitting from using it.

Stinky wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

The public is not qualified to interpret what the data proves, or interpret "excuses". The public is also not unbaised.

And you think the journals are? Over half the stuff published in the scientific journals these days is JUNK...now that stinks!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2014/01/08/the-trouble-with-scientific-research-today-a-lot-thats-published-is-junk/#55d896727674

Mate you should have studied economics & finance at a higher level. 99.7% is junk.

rekrunner wrote:

- This kind of independent review you want doesn't get analyzed for free -- will you step up and offer to pay the costs? Will trollism, spencer, yyy, rjm, casual obsessor?

The fact that blood values go down during the season as a result of intense exercise is something well known. What exactly do you think someone would find?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

That'd be fine. Why doesn't Canova do that?

There hundreds of PhD candidates probably looking for a topic just like this to investigate, maybe even some post-doctoral researchers looking to raise their profiles.

But Paula's blood values miraculously bounced back to off season levels very quickly. After an aerobic effort.

rekrunner wrote:

Experienced and logical posters who say friendly things like "rek-troll".

Regarding when Jeptoo took EPO, I'm sure I would have said what was known at the time -- something like she was found positive in an out of competition test in Kenya, a country thought not to have out of competition testing, 2 weeks before Chicago.

Her Boston race wasn't annulled until after the IAAF appeal, some two years later. There was also a statement that she hid the EPO use from her manager and coach, proving everyone wrong about Federico Rosa and Claudio Berardelli. She hid it from me too -- maybe also Renato.

RE rek-troll: you started it with your casual obsessor or something. And I never said I was polite.

RE Jeptoo: no, you pretended that she was clean during her earlier races, without evidence, and used that as an argument that EPO slowed her down. Normally when drug cheats are caught, one looks at the progression to find an onset, or to wonder why one hasn't suspected that person before. In case of Jeptoo, just like Baumann, Farah and Radcliffe, there seemed to be a clear performance jump late in the game. Fine, ascribe that to situps and box jumps in case of the Brits.

Renato actually claimed that he as coach naturally knows whether his athletes are clean or not. That speaks volumes about the coaches of drug cheats like... oh well, I am sure you know lots of names.

Regarding Jeptoo, it sounds like me to say that we know she took EPO in September, yet in Chicago, three weeks later, she ran more than 5 minutes slower than Boston.Maybe I "pretended" she was clean in Boston. It's just pretend, right? I can't imagine me saying definitively, she was clean in Boston, without saying "maybe" or "it's possible", or some other kind of qualification.Forgive my naivety if it makes me wonder if "EPO worked" in Chicago.But it's a pattern we often see -- when dopers are caught, they are not running their best times.Baumann is a good example, caught for steroids in 1999, just after running 13:02 for 5K, taking 9th place. He ran one sub-13:00 race in his life, a 12:54.70 two years earlier in 1997.From that, the logical and experienced conclusion is that he was taking steroids the whole time. Oh and EPO and probably HGH.

casual obsever wrote:

RE Jeptoo: no, you pretended that she was clean during her earlier races, without evidence, and used that as an argument that EPO slowed her down. Normally when drug cheats are caught, one looks at the progression to find an onset, or to wonder why one hasn't suspected that person before. In case of Jeptoo, just like Baumann, Farah and Radcliffe, there seemed to be a clear performance jump late in the game. Fine, ascribe that to situps and box jumps in case of the Brits.

Renato actually claimed that he as coach naturally knows whether his athletes are clean or not. That speaks volumes about the coaches of drug cheats like... oh well, I am sure you know lots of names.

rekrunner wrote:

But it's a pattern we often see -- when dopers are caught, they are not running their best times.

Baumann is a good example, caught for steroids in 1999, just after running 13:02 for 5K, taking 9th place. He ran one sub-13:00 race in his life, a 12:54.70 two years earlier in 1997.

From that, the logical and experienced conclusion is that he was taking steroids the whole time. Oh and EPO and probably HGH.

Don't know about that...you'd have to provide some more evidence other than Baumann.

And is Baumann a good example? You're assuming that it was only nandrolone that he was using. All his PBs from the mile on up through the 10000 were set in Pre-EPO test era. When the Festina affair in cycling broke out in July/1998 it sent shock waves throughout the European athletic community. And in early 1999 rumors were floating around of the impending EPO test on the horizon. These events influenced some athletes to tone down or altogether stop their EPO use in the late 98/early 99.

Do you honestly think distance runners popped for steriods the during EPO "abuse" era of the 90s would only be using low-octane doping to improve performance? 🤔

El Keniano wrote:

I've been scammed by taxi drivers and tourist guides and pickpocketed in public transportation in Spain, France and Italy; All richer countries. NEVER in Kenya. I, however, bear less animosity towards the person that picks your wallet than the criminals who run financial services and systems that constantly rip us off, wipe out people's life savings/pensions and bring economies as large as the United States to their knees.

What was that you were saying about the rich being less prone to crime?

Thats not a very good argument. All cities in the world with a lot of tourisme will have a lot of crime exploiting tourists. Then again, Spain and Italy is drug riddled nations. Why? Culture, lower morale, not particularly rich nations. But you are again failing to comprehend what I'm telling you. I'm not saying cheating doesn't occur in the western world, I'm saying for an athlete from a wealthy nation with a good future ahead of him, he has less incentive to cheat. Theres plenty of poor people in the nations you are talking about.

Read this and tell me that you honestly does not see any incentive here that an athlete from e.g a nordic nation have:

"Commonwealth Games steeplechase champion in 2002, he changed his name to Saif Saaeed Shaheen, before winning the World 'chase title in 2003 and '05 and setting a world record. His brother, fifth behind him wearing Kenyan colours in 2003, refused to speak to him. However, Shaheen denied to me that the transfer was for the $1m which had been widely reported (plus a $1000 monthly stipend – then some two years income in Kenya). His response cast a different light on the pejorative "mercenary" branding he endured.

One of nine children, he'd to leave school when most of his father's stock died in a drought. Their only agricultural possession was a wooden plough inherited from his grandfather. There is still no water tap in the Keyo village where he grew up. "I used to walk three kilometres every evening after school, and carried 10 litres back again in plastic containers. Every day."

Just 10 of their 90 animals survived the drought. "My father sold animals to raise money for school fees. Then we'd no animals to sell."

By 2005 he was putting his siblings through school, and two through university in the US. "I told them to stop running, and study. Everyone who is an athlete in Kenya runs to escape poverty."

Some 50 people were dependent on his athletics success for a livelihood.

The Kenyan federation, riddled with corruption, prevented Shaheen from ever competing in the Olympics - during a four-year period in which he remained unbeaten in 28 'chases."

yyy wrote:

I am looking forward to more positives in the future!!!

Maybe Boston? And the WC's are coming up London this summer...so maybe some ridiculous performances that we can shake our head at?

*Read this and tell me that you honestly does not see any incentive here that an athlete from e.g a nordic nation *doesn't have:

yyy wrote:

I don't know. But by not doing so, he has lost all credibility (although I doubt he realizes that himself).

I am looking forward to more positives in the future!!!

Trollingen din er sjelden morsom, hva med å sette søkelys på Sindre sin shady trener/karriere? Hører du er storfan...

Renato Canova wrote:

I confirm that the fact EPO doesn't produce any improvement in athletes born, living and training with continuity in altitude, if their training is proper, is an idea I matured after more than 30 years of experience with top athletes in altitude, before with Italians (in this case for periods of about 3 weeks, repeated several times in one season), after with Kenyans and Ethiopians, with a period with Chinese too.

I don't understand. There are very few Italians born and living at altitude, and

those Italians whom you have worked with (e.g. Stefano Baldini) were clearly

not born at altitude.

Are you saying that, from your personal experience, EPO has in fact worked

for the Italians whom you have coached? What else would your experience

with runners not born at altitude possibly tell you about the importance of

birth at altitude for the effectiveness of EPO?

And how did your extensive coaching experience, which you undeniably have,

lead you to conclude that EPO does not work for the Kenyans who were

indeed born at altitude - did you try, with negative results? Otherwise, that

remains pure speculation on your part.

Barakus Obama wrote:

Thats not a very good argument. All cities in the world with a lot of tourisme will have a lot of crime exploiting tourists. Then again, Spain and Italy is drug riddled nations. Why? Culture, lower morale, not particularly rich nations.

Crime in the UK is much worse than crime in Spain when you look at most of the statistics:

Is that because the UK has more of a crime culture, lower morale, and is not particularly rich when compared with Spain?

The UK does not compare favorably with Italy either:

Do the same arguments apply?

bad breath wrote:

Barakus Obama wrote:

Thats not a very good argument. All cities in the world with a lot of tourisme will have a lot of crime exploiting tourists. Then again, Spain and Italy is drug riddled nations. Why? Culture, lower morale, not particularly rich nations.

Crime in the UK is much worse than crime in Spain when you look at most of the statistics:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Spain/United-Kingdom/Crime

Is that because the UK has more of a crime culture, lower morale, and is not particularly rich when compared with Spain?

The UK does not compare favorably with Italy either:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Italy/United-Kingdom/Crime

Do the same arguments apply?

Why they have more crime I can't tell you. I'm only saying the incentive for poor people too cheat when to get to the top when its pretty easy to do and get away is far bigger than if you're wealthy.

But thats just a generalisation. For example an american sprinter can be poor or rich or middelclass, depends where in the us.

My point is:

Danish athlete with a good future ahead of him regardless of outcome in sport has one less incentive to cheat than a poor runner, say a kenyan. Just look at what Shaheen managed to do with his money and how he grew up.

då treng du høyreapparat, idiot.

Evertsen er ikkje heilt god.

yyy wrote:

då treng du høyreapparat, idiot.

Evertsen er ikkje heilt god.

Sett deg hylle Sindre her inne tidligere...Kanskje høyreapparat e unøvdendig så lenge eg ha brilla.