Why I hate the stock market. Unprofitable Tesla is now worth more than profitable Ford which sells 28 x as many cars

Stocks are about speculation, rojo. Think about where Tesla might be in 5 or 10 years. Think about fossil fuels versus sustainable energy. Yeah, Ford and other big car companies have electric cars as part of their lineup, but Tesla has a leg up.

That's why Tesla is priced the way it is. I expect it to go a lot higher.

ck3237 wrote:

Amazon is barely making money but is twice the value of Tesla.

If you think Amazon is barely making money, you haven't been paying attention. They have reinvested almost all of their profits into expansion and r&d. If at any point they decide to stop expanding, they could turn into a money printing machine overnight.

DiscoGary wrote:

Coal Power Trumps Solar Power wrote:

Trump knows something. I'm lookingto invest in coal powered cars. What company is leading that sector?

Tesla's are coal powered cars.

Right on.

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

In 2015, the United States generated about 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity.1 About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2015:1

Coal = 33%

Natural gas = 33%

Nuclear = 20%

Hydropower = 6%

Other renewables = 7%

Biomass = 1.6%

Geothermal = 0.4%

Solar = 0.6%

Wind = 4.7%

Petroleum = 1%

Other gases =

asfdasd@yadsffd.com wrote:

Howard Dean wrote:

Ain't that the truth.

But most of the idiots buying these subsidized luxury vehicles probably think they are powered by unicorn farts and the breath of Al Gore.

I am willing to be that most tesla owners live in areas that are not highly coal powered. CA for example is under 5% these days. New York is like 1%. There are only a couple of places left where coal dominates. Natural gas is just cheaper these days.

California Power Sources 2015

6% Coal

44% Natural Gas (oh those evil frackers)

6% Solar

8% Wind

Howard Dean wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

Tesla's are coal powered cars.

Ain't that the truth.

But most of the idiots buying these subsidized luxury vehicles probably think they are powered by unicorn farts and the breath of Al Gore.

Coal is quickly slipping as the total percentage of US power production. It is now down to about 33% and will continue to decline as long as fracing is producing lots of cheap natural gas and the Chinese flood the market with cheap solar panels. But the main reason people are putting big long bets on Tesla is that they have a solar roof concept that integrates with a home battery storage that will allow Tesla owners to go off the grid for power. Just about every single family residence in the US has a roof that needs to be replaced every 20-30 years. If the Tesla roof and car can be mass produced to be affordable to the average homeowner, you could potentially see a massive shift away from coal because coal is currently the low man on the energy totem pole in terms of cost.

If you actually believe TSLA is overpriced then put your money where your mouth is. Short it. Very simple.

If the "Tesla Roof" happens then the next big thing might be Home Solar/Battery Storage servicing companies.

Picture guys on roofs dusting off the panels every six months and replacing broken panels after every hail storm. There would be a glorious amount of money to be made.

When battery storage facilities catch fire it's an amazing thing to see.

Tesla is a luxury car maker. It's Model 3 (which really isn't going to be available for another year) which is designed to meet more mainstream buyers is still $5000 more than comparable models that are already on the market. Most of the big manufacturers only make the EVs to meet compliance standards in niche markets like CA. If they see that there will be a real demand for these EVs by a large number of consumers (which in my opinion is less likely with Trump in office), I am pretty certain they can drive Tesla out of the market pretty quick. Tesla's bigger immediate threat is brands like Mercedes and BMW are entering the market and will take away market share on the luxury side, which thus far has been Tesla's bread and butter. Tesla's market cap is truly crazy when you compare it to other car brands against sales volumes. Market Cap to sales of other EV manufacturers:

GM market cap $51.19B, sales $166.38B, MC/S .3077, P/E 5.72

Ford market cap $45.47B, sales $151.8B, MC/S .2995, P/E 9.98

Nissan market cap $40.73B, sales $101.5B, MC/S .4013, P/E 8.45

Tesla market cap $48.69B, sales $7B, MC/S 6.96, P/E non existent (no earnings).

The difference between the companies is that Tesla has all of it's eggs in one basket (other than solar panels, where it is losing money as well). Musk bought Solar City to decrease he and his other board members personal losses on their own investments in the company (he is currently being sued by Tesla share holders for this). It was a very Enron like move.

Warren wrote:

If you actually believe TSLA is overpriced then put your money where your mouth is. Short it. Very simple.

This ^

Would love to see Ghost Igy put his money where his mouth is in this manner. But then, perhaps he is just all mouth.

This ^

Would love to see Detector Dude put his money where his mouth and become a PASSIVE INVESTOR IN TSLA!

Try reading a book about business and or stock valuations. This chart is a start. Soak this up.http://www.comindwork.com/images/weekly/product-life-cycle-sales-vs-profit.png

rojo wrote:

Tesla's market cap is 47 billion. Ford's is 45 billion.

Yet Ford made $4.8 billion last year and Tesla lost $773 million.

Everyone seems excited because Tesla delivered more than 25,000 vehicles this quarter. So what? Ford sold more than 17 million vehicles in the US alone last year. Ford sold more than 237,000 vehicles last month - month not quarter- so they sell even right now are still selling about 28 times as many vehicles as Tesla and in a profitable manner.

The people that suck up to the tech sector blow me away. Look how this article is written.

https://www.recode.net/2017/4/3/15160462/tesla-ford-deliveries-record-sales

rojo wrote:

Flat Lining wrote:

Tesla is taking an all-in approach to electric and is far ahead of the US automakers which are taking the wait-and-see approach.

That's just not true. The Chevy Bolt is far ahead of anything Tesla has ever made in terms of price/range.

https://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/

And don't get me started on Uber. On Uber, I sort of get it. But in my mind, rideshare should be a non profit. If computers are driving us around, why should some jerk in CA get the money. Why not let poor people buy cars and have them make a dollar or two a day driving around while they are at work.

Wow. Are you drunk? Uber essentially replaced the taxi cab market. In the prior market taxi cab medallions sold for the price of homes. Now Uber through technology essentially owns a large share of the taxi cab medallions.

pr100 wrote:

You're buying a share in the company's revenue stream in perpetuity. It's not just about current profit or sales. This just means that the market thinks that in the long run you'll get more from Tesla than from Ford...

End of thread. Thank you.

STSBO wrote:

rojo wrote:

Why I hate the stock market. Unprofitable Tesla is now worth more than profitable Ford which sells 28 x as many cars

Thanks for pointing out that you have no understanding of the stock market.

People often hate that which they are ignorant of. So you have plenty of company.

haha. Owned.

This Man wrote:

Warren wrote:

If you actually believe TSLA is overpriced then put your money where your mouth is. Short it. Very simple.

This ^

Would love to see Ghost Igy put his money where his mouth is in this manner. But then, perhaps he is just all mouth.

As others have pointed out, shorting an overvalued stock is not the mirror image of buying an undervalued stock. When you buy an undervalued stock, you (and your heirs) get to wait as long as you like for your prediction to turn out correct. When you short a stock, you have to know that it's going down by a particular time. It's very, very risky. It's even riskier with a company that other investors are buying because they believe the company will eventually revolutionize a sector of the economy. Investors haven't gotten remotely tired of waiting for Amazon to pay off, for example.

800 dude wrote:

Investors haven't gotten remotely tired of waiting for Amazon to pay off, for example.

All the value today seems to be being created by the Web Services division. I'd be surprised if they didn't spin that off at some point.

Fortunately cheap, clean and efficient coal power will be making a comeback now that the swamp at the EPA has been drained. Look for electric costs to drop as the US gets back to making power affordable again. Renewables are a fun science experiment, but government mandated quotas are ridiculous.

I look forward to the day when solar power and storage (a necessity for it to work properly) become economically viable without government subsidies. We're just not there yet.

Actually, there are inventors who have already solved the explosion problem with batteries. There's a company, maybe in NC, where you can cut and hammer and so forth on their battery with no risk whatsoever.