1964 Olympic 5000m Tokyo - Nikolai/Nikolay Dutov and Thor Helland - Anyone know who they were coached by?

Training Advice/Discussion 5k/10k

7 years ago 03/28/2017 5:47pm EDT

I would like to find out who coached Nikolai/Nikolay Dutov and Thor Helland.

This is my understanding and a brief overview of the runners who participated in the 1964 Tokyo Olympic 5000m final, their coaches and training styles. Happy to be corrected where my information/understanding is not correct.

1st - Bob Schul - Trained under Mihaly Igloi (intensive extensive intervals but sometimes up to 20km worth of intervals in a sessions)

2nd - Harold Norpeth - Trained under Ernst van Aaken (base training/conditioning phase = higher volume, long runs (over 40km in some cases) with pulse around 150bpm

3rd - Bill Dellinger - Trained under Bill Bowerman (similar to Lydiard)

4th - Michel Jazy - Trained advised by Gosta Olander (very "organic", "free range", "natural" training - Jazy worked with Gerschler but found his method "boring and soul destroying")

5th - Kipchoge Keino - Self coached/Mal Whitfield (low mileage, quality every day)

6th - Bill Baillie - Trained under Arthur Lydiard (base, hills, speedwork â€“ 100miles per week)

7th â€“ Nikolay/Nikolai Dutov - ? (?)

8th - Thor Helland - ? (?)

9th - Ron Clarke - Self coached/Percy Cerutty (lots of steady and tempo runs).

7 years ago 03/28/2017 6:13pm EDT

re: BazylP

Mistake on Norpoth, 150 HR should read 130

Keino had easy days, moderate mileage

7 years ago 03/28/2017 8:25pm EDT

re: dsrunner

Thanks for your input dsrunner.

Having difficulty finding out hard facts about Keino's training but will keep searching. I did some more research on Norpeth. From van Aaken's book (Van Aaken Method, 1976, pg 23) "My protege Harald Norpeth had a pulse of 110-150 during 90% of his training mileage, and even during maximal 400-meter runs his heart rate was no higher than 176, measured telemetrically."

7 years ago 03/29/2017 7:36am EDT

re: BazylP

It's not easy to find out who trained Helland, but when he peaked he was inspired by Lydiard, with lots of long, steady paced running in the winter, and more specific track training in the summer - according to Arne Kvalheim, one of his competitors. Kvalheim suggests that Helland's unability to reproduce his results from the 1965 season was caused by the early Lydiard's lack of long, hard runs during the season.

7 years ago 03/29/2017 8:41am EDT

re: Running fast and slow

Clarke had zero connection to Cerruty. He thought the man was a lunatic. They hated each other.

7 years ago 03/29/2017 9:21am EDT

re: BazylP

Can't help you with Dutov or Helland but to keep Ron Clarke from turning in his grave I have to tell you that he never had anything to do with Cerutty though Cerutty tried to recruit him. Ron told me the story. He was with his dad when Cerutty was doing his sales pitch. Ron was not impressed. As they were leaving Ron told his dad that he wanted to find a coach who "knew what he was doing and who wasn't a dud." He ended up with Franz Stampfl in the early part of his career and then was self coached when he returned to the sport in 1961.

Also, there are old threads here about Norpoth and some samples of his training. He was coached by van Aaken, as you say, but there's no evidence of 40 kilometer runs. Actually, the mileage was quite modest, 50 miles would have been a really big week in those samples though there's some indication that he might have gone somewhat higher in the winter.

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