My normal trainer is the Brooks Adrenaline which is obviously a fairly clunky and stiff shoe. Previously my calves and arches have been a bit sore when switching to spikes or flats for workouts or what ever. Would it be a good idea to add in a neutral trainer to the mix for shorter training runs to allow my foot to get used to it without having to be in a spike or flat?
Bump
Might not be a bad idea, but what might be better is to run some of your workouts in flats/spikes. This will get your legs used to that feeling much better than a neutral trainer can
Yes I have been doing that as well but even that transition isn't the easiest even when not running that much in spikes or flats
Your calves are sore because of the change in heel drop from 12mm to zero in spikes/flats. Your arches are sore because of the lack of arch support in spikes/flats. There are two nearly opposite approaches to this. One is to strengthen your foot. The other approach is to support your foot.
I'm much older than, well, pretty much everyone on this board and I have many chronic foot problems, so I choose the latter approach. Thus, my solution might not work for you. That said...
Get a lower heel drop shoe for your normal trainer. A 12mm drop promotes heel strike, which you can't do in flats/spikes. The change from 12 to 0 is part of the reason why you have calf issues. Personally, I prefer a neutral/performance shoe with a 4-6mm heel drop and a Superfeet insert to provide a little extra stability and arch support for my road runs. My training shoes typically weigh 9 1/2 ounces. You might still do your longest runs in the Adrenaline.
Also, once my spikes/flats are broken in, I don't run in them unless it's a race or a time trial. I also choose my spikes/flats to have a little arch support when laced up. These are the models that curve in a lot at the arch area of the shoe. I do my interval workouts in a performance shoe that has more cushion and arch support than a flat. My interval shoes typically weigh 7 1/2 ounces.
Finally, I run barefoot on the grass for my cool down run. This is the strengthening part. You need to start with very low volume and build up... maybe only 200m at first and building up to 1 1/2 miles over 12 weeks or so.
I typically have 5-6 shoes in my normal rotation: a long run shoe, a long run/interval shoe, an interval shoe, two pair of trail shoes, and then my racing flats and spikes.
fisky wrote:
Your calves are sore because of the change in heel drop from 12mm to zero in spikes/flats. Your arches are sore because of the lack of arch support in spikes/flats. There are two nearly opposite approaches to this. One is to strengthen your foot. The other approach is to support your foot.
I'm much older than, well, pretty much everyone on this board and I have many chronic foot problems, so I choose the latter approach. Thus, my solution might not work for you. That said...
Get a lower heel drop shoe for your normal trainer. A 12mm drop promotes heel strike, which you can't do in flats/spikes. The change from 12 to 0 is part of the reason why you have calf issues. Personally, I prefer a neutral/performance shoe with a 4-6mm heel drop and a Superfeet insert to provide a little extra stability and arch support for my road runs. My training shoes typically weigh 9 1/2 ounces. You might still do your longest runs in the Adrenaline.
Also, once my spikes/flats are broken in, I don't run in them unless it's a race or a time trial. I also choose my spikes/flats to have a little arch support when laced up. These are the models that curve in a lot at the arch area of the shoe. I do my interval workouts in a performance shoe that has more cushion and arch support than a flat. My interval shoes typically weigh 7 1/2 ounces.
Finally, I run barefoot on the grass for my cool down run. This is the strengthening part. You need to start with very low volume and build up... maybe only 200m at first and building up to 1 1/2 miles over 12 weeks or so.
I typically have 5-6 shoes in my normal rotation: a long run shoe, a long run/interval shoe, an interval shoe, two pair of trail shoes, and then my racing flats and spikes.
Fisky you bring up a lot of good points. A lot of that is stuff I just ignored to post originally but I will address what you have said.
Trainers are Brooks Adrenaline - 12mm drop
Flats are Adidas adizero boost 3 - 10 mm drop
Spikes - nike zoom victory
(Also I have the nike zoom streak lt 2 (4mm drop) which may be a good idea to start adding into the mix)
Normally I wear the Brooks for all training runs and warm up cool downs and occasionally flats or spikes for workouts when a good idea to do so.
The things I have noticed the most is that my arches get a little sore when going to the adidas flats (which makes sense since that is not a stability shoe its a racing flat) and my calves as well but my calves feel the worst in spikes (not surprisingly with the increased demand from them).
Some things I think I want to work on are both calf strength and balance work but most importantly I think a good idea is to gradually ease myself into the spikes and flats (or maybe even barefoot running) which in combination with the strength work should keep be clear. I am going to talk to my trainer today about figuring out a plan with this stuff.
I thought the neutral shoes added into the mix for shorter training runs may be a good idea to help the transition.
I appreciate the input, a lot of good stuff
bump
The New Balance 1500 might be a good transition shoe for you to try. I think it has a 6 or 8mm drop and very light stability in the form of the standard higher density medial foam post. Other options would be a light stability mizuno or the NB Zante. The Zante is neutral but still has a moderate heel drop, 6mm I think, so it wouldn't be a shock to your calves. I like mixing up various drops and support, but I also have never really had arch or calf issues. If you're sore but not injured, I would suggest trying to strengthen your feet before you end up relying on support...but test the waters slowly and don't push it. Some people just can't handle low/no drop shoes.
I have starting working on some new rehab work for balance and lower leg strength etc. Just generally curious about whether a shoe added into my arsenal can help ease when I am going through
I am figuring I can either go the route of a neutral shoe and high heel to toe drop or stability shoe with low heel to tow drop (New Balance Fresh Foam Vongo). Thoughts?
bazap wrote:
I am figuring I can either go the route of a neutral shoe and high heel to toe drop or stability shoe with low heel to tow drop (New Balance Fresh Foam Vongo). Thoughts?
neutral shoe and high heel to toe drop... No. Rationale: Your foot is accustomed to the support of the Adrenaline. If you go to neutral shoe, it should be an intermediate drop, which reduces the need for arch support.
Stability shoe with low heel to toe drop... Okay
You have a third option. Go to an intermediate drop stability or neutral shoe for your medium runs. Stay in the Adrenalins for your long run until you adapt to the lower heel drop of the intermediate shoe, then switch completely to the lower heel drop stability/neutral trainer.
fisky wrote:
bazap wrote:I am figuring I can either go the route of a neutral shoe and high heel to toe drop or stability shoe with low heel to tow drop (New Balance Fresh Foam Vongo). Thoughts?
neutral shoe and high heel to toe drop... No. Rationale: Your foot is accustomed to the support of the Adrenaline. If you go to neutral shoe, it should be an intermediate drop, which reduces the need for arch support.
Stability shoe with low heel to toe drop... Okay
You have a third option. Go to an intermediate drop stability or neutral shoe for your medium runs. Stay in the Adrenalins for your long run until you adapt to the lower heel drop of the intermediate shoe, then switch completely to the lower heel drop stability/neutral trainer.
Fisky, any shoes that you can recommend that fit this template? I have to take a look through some sites to find a show that fits this they aren't easy to find. Maybe running warehouse will help me search I'll post back what I find
Fisky,
Why is it that you say a lower heel to toe drop reduces the need for arch support?
fisky wrote:
Go to an intermediate drop stability or neutral shoe for your medium runs. Stay in the Adrenalins for your long run until you adapt to the lower heel drop of the intermediate shoe, then switch completely to the lower heel drop stability/neutral trainer.
Running Warehouse reports the following shoes given the criteria of:
Support Min
Support Mod
Support Max
5mm - 6mm drop
Hoka ONE ONE Arahi | Support max | 5 mm drop
New Balance 1500 v3 | Support min | 6 mm drop
Newton Kismet II | Support min | 5 mm drop
The new balance 1500 is essentially a racing flat with support, and the other two brands I am weary about trying.
Changing the drop to the 7mm - 8mm range we have:
Brooks Transcend 4 | support min | 8mm drop
New Balance 1260 v6 | support max | 8mm drop
New Balance Vazee Prism v2 | support min | 8mm drop
Saucony Guide 10 | support mod | 8mm drop
Saucony Hurricane ISO 2 | support max | 8mm drop
Saucony Omni 15 | support max | 8mm drop
Sounds like an interesting idea coming from someone in a similar situation.
Bazap
Maybe try a midway neutral shoe ~6mm drop
Maybe the Zante or vazee prism?
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