Is karate anything more than choreographed dance?

I was in the Marines with a guy who was a black belt. He was always trying to demonstrate his moves. They would inevitably fail and he would always blame us because we didn't attack him the way we were supposed to.

I did karate for a few years off and on as a kid and basically found this to be true. I also played football, and initially assumed that I should approach karate the same way that I approached football practice: as close to "game speed" as possible without injuring anyone. If found out pretty quickly that this was not at all the expectation.

For example, we'd practice a number of techniques for escaping a person's grasp or defending ourselves from an incoming punch/kick. It was literally expected that the puncher in these scenarios would extend their arm and STOP at the end of the punching motion to wait for the other person to execute the technique. When I'd grab someone while practicing a self-defense technique, they'd often start giving me instructions like "not quite so hard...grab a little further down...ok, still a little to hard...alright, ready."

I enjoyed some aspects of it, but I wish it would have been treated more like a real sport. I'm not looking for anyone to get injured, but when injuries are more common among cross country runners than people engaged in a fighting sport, said fighting sport might be a bit too risk averse.

Karate Frauds wrote:

I was in the Marines with a guy who was a black belt. He was always trying to demonstrate his moves. They would inevitably fail and he would always blame us because we didn't attack him the way we were supposed to.

Ha, yep. Sounds about right.

Karate Frauds wrote:

I was in the Marines with a guy who was a black belt. He was always trying to demonstrate his moves. They would inevitably fail and he would alwayso blame us because we didn't attack him the way we were supposed to.

Haha!

MMA sorts it all out. What works and what doesn't work. It's put to the test.

I did a lot of taekwondo. Nobody claims it's the most effective way to learn real world fighting. Not by a long shot. But it's also far from worthless. For instance, if you're reasonably skilled, and you're being attacked by someone who is closing at speed who isn't expecting you to use your legs, then you should be able to pretty easily floor your attacker with a single back kick.

Something else to keep in mind is that traditional martial arts get a bad name because there are so many watered-down black belt factories, especially in the U.S. The WTF allows people to get black belts in as little as one year, which is ridiculous. The school I attended when I was younger had only promoted three black belts in its history. Among the many requirements to pass for black belt, the student had to break a board held loose in a single hand at above head height. The higher level belt tests were brutal, multi-hour affairs requiring months of preparation. The guys at that level would be very dangerous in a fight. Would they win a UFC bout or a street fight against Israeli special forces? Probably not. But I still wouldn't want to mess with them.

Also you shouldn't ignore the fact that taekwondo and karate have their own forms of Olympic sparring, which are very fast and competitive. Sure, the rules are artificial, but no more so than boxing or many other combat sports. Martial artists in other disciplines also frequently compete in full-contact multidisciplinary tournaments (basically kickboxing). None of this is "dancing."

In any event, the fact that most black belts have never hit someone or been hit (outside of the ring) is beside the point. Hardly anyone ever has to defend themselves in real life. The reason to do martial arts, whether it's tai chi, taekwondo, or MMA, is because you enjoy it and it's good for your health. If defense is your main concern, you'd be better off just getting a concealed carry permit.

ANY martial art depends on the person using it. A determined, coordinated Tae Kwon Do practitioner will wipe the floor with an undisciplined jiu jitsu fighter or marine any day of the week.

Fake fighting wrote:

How many alleged third degree black belts in taekwondo have ever hit someone or been hit.

I'm not so sure about that. I see those karate guys and girls smashing through boards and blocks with just their bare hands. Imagine if those boards or blocks were my face? They could probably kill most people in fight with just a punch or two. I would defnitely not want a karate person to hit me so I would be courteous to anyone wearing a karate gi. In fact better to be courteous to everyone as you never know.

Fighting is knowing the percentages. Over 70% of every male gets their fighting lessons from a movie. most of them think it would be easy to fight and win because it looked easy on the big screen, and according to most guys they are a tough bad a$$.

The truth is, most male fighters are idiots. they throw hay makers and swing wide for a punch. any one with boxer training can tell you, the jab is the most effective punch and should be supported by the legs and not thrown flat footed.

Two quick jabs to most guys causes hesitation, and then radical attempts to wrestle. Wrestling is not fighting. It is only part of it. Leverage is a big part, and most big guys rely too much on their size. Block, move and make your punch hard and fast while staying on the balls of your feet is the most effective way to fight. the protection of one self is primary when being attacked, but one must be prepared to strike when availability occurs rather than cover up all day.

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth.

-- Mike Tyson

So true

truth

Flowtrak wrote:

Wrestling is not fighting. It is only part of it. Leverage is a big part, and most big guys rely too much on their size.

That long speech and then you basically say you've never been in a fight either...

all real fights are settled by wrestling. Boxing is meaningless foreplay, even if you manage to maintain good form under adrenaline.

Tackle your opponent quickly and the fight is over. It's very easy if you know how, and not hard to learn.

OP: In your subject line you mention karate, but the body of your post asks about Taekwondo. Which of those martial arts are you asking about? The former is a Japanese (predominantly) striking art that emphasizes the fists, feet, elbows, and knees, while the latter is Korean and emphasizes kicks. They are more different than similar.

Anyways, if you're asking about the applicabality of martial arts in general to real-world situations, look to the leveler that is MMA; in the early days of UFC Royce Gracie was able to dominate much larger opponents with his mastery of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and as MMA has evolved since then no one can be successful without at least basic BJJ skills. No one has ever succeeded in MMA with a style based on karate, kung fu, Taekwondo, aikido, or any similar martial art.

kung fu fighting wrote:

Fake fighting wrote:

How many alleged third degree black belts in taekwondo have ever hit someone or been hit.

I'm not so sure about that. I see those karate guys and girls smashing through boards and blocks with just their bare hands. Imagine if those boards or blocks were my face? They could probably kill most people in fight with just a punch or two. I would defnitely not want a karate person to hit me so I would be courteous to anyone wearing a karate gi. In fact better to be courteous to everyone as you never know.

Those boards are incredibly easy to break. They are dried out as much as possible and held so that they will break along the grains. I could break those without much effort as a 12 year old who probably weighed about 80 lbs. Martial arts like taekwondo/karate are not effect means of fighting on their own unless your opponent knows nothing. Taekwondo punches are basically a joke and while the kicks are effective, there are much better strategies than just having a good kick. Most practitioners would not be amazing street fighters. I remember when I used to take part there was a new guy who came from boxing. They gave him a yellow belt right away (belts mean nothing lol, black belts are handed out like candy) just so he could spar and he wrecked everyone just with punches. You can't even punch to the head in taekowndo either so he just out did the whole club with body shots lol. They are great sports but wrestling, juijitzu, and kickboxing are far more effective in real fights.

800 dude wrote:

I did a lot of taekwondo. Nobody claims it's the most effective way to learn real world fighting. Not by a long shot. But it's also far from worthless. For instance, if you're reasonably skilled, and you're being attacked by someone who is closing at speed who isn't expecting you to use your legs, then you should be able to pretty easily floor your attacker with a single back kick.

This is true. I was attacked by a moran and deflected his punches. When he tried to kick because his punches were no landing I grabbed his leg and used a learn taekwondo kick to knock him flat. I held his leg as he fell which meant that as he fell his head hit the ground solid just before his back hit. I walk away as he whined in pain (he was about 25 and athletic--dumb jock).

John Utah wrote:

Karate Frauds wrote:

I was in the Marines with a guy who was a black belt. He was always trying to demonstrate his moves. They would inevitably fail and he would alwayso blame us because we didn't attack him the way we were supposed to.

Haha!

MMA sorts it all out. What works and what doesn't work. It's put to the test.

MMA does no such thing. MMA is a sport with a whole bunch of rules. In a real fight, there are no rules.

Still, karate is crap.

Karate is a sport not intended to inflict injury and death. However, before the Pearl Harbor hostilities, in China, the Japanese Army famously used Karate for decades and decades in low-keyed operations to systematically wipe out he British Empire by murdering 100,000s of European and American colonialists without the use of firearms, swords, knives, or batons. It's how you use the skills you learn which matters.

Karate Frauds wrote:

I was in the Marines with a guy who was a black belt. He was always trying to demonstrate his moves. They would inevitably fail and he would always blame us because we didn't attack him the way we were supposed to.

Depends. Kyokushin fighters are not afraid of any or marine or any mere mortal. Why? We all bleed. We train to hit hard, receive punishment and hit and hurt our opponents harder, we don't play patty cake. You don't believe me? Test any of us, we guarantee you will get really hurt.

Us, Kyokushin fighters are not afraid of any marine or any mere mortal at all. Why? We all bleed. We train to hit hard, receive punishment and hit and hurt our opponents harder, we don't play patty cake. You don't believe me? Test any of us, we guarantee you will get really hurt.