Freshman class of 17, top end quite talented bottom end around 4:20. Major state school. 3 left on the roster.
Freshman class of 17, top end quite talented bottom end around 4:20. Major state school. 3 left on the roster.
Malemute Kid,
you definitely gave it away, but you really think that's a "meat grinder"? Ha.
A lot of interesting responses.
I'm at an institution where we average about 35% attrition over the course of 4 years, with a the worst years I can remember being around 50%. This is counting all recruited athletes whether they come out for a team or not, and all walk ons that actually compete in at least 1 meet.
We always think of this number as way too high, and attribute it to being at one of the most challenging and stressful institutions in the country (this is probably the #1 reason we're given by people quitting), so its very interesting to hear we're actually on par or ahead of so many other places in this regard.
You should just call out the team. We all want to know. I want to know that I guessed right tbh.
Another Big South Runner wrote:
Malemute Kid,
you definitely gave it away, but you really think that's a "meat grinder"? Ha.
I think everyone doing same very high level intensity is pretty grinderish, not in the traditional 100mpw sense though I'll help you out and say not High Point
100% of my teammates were DONE after 4 years. DONE.
Quitting Epidemic wrote:
My college's xc/tf team has been experiencing a high number of individuals quitting this year and it got us thinking about why. We typically bring in 4-5 recruits a year for the xc/distance program and typically 1 or 2 make it through all 4 years.
What's you teams rate of quitting? How many people do you bring in/make it through all 4 (or 5) years?
This past year I transferred out of a relatively decent GLIAC (DII) school after my freshman year. In less than two years out of a recruiting class of 5, I have transferred, another kid has quit to party, another kid will probably be done after this year and there's a probable transfer. Unless you love the school or have a decent scholarship, there is decent chance that you won't around. I wasn't improving and hated the school. I think too many runners base their decision on solely running and then regret their decision.
Private D1 school.
Attrition was lethal when I got there. Like 1 senior left in the class. My year and the year above me were pretty solid at ~25% attrition which was pretty surprising. Now we are back to ~40-75% which I hear was the standard before.
I think that being in-season for the entire school year, plus a few weeks on either side takes a huge toll. I wonder if there is a lower attrition rate for schools that only sponsor xc/outdoor only or track only. Every other sport gets a break during the school year where athletes can get at least a taste of the "norma" college life. I think this is an important balance to have
I don't know exactly, since I'm a freshman, but all of our xc new recruits are still running track but I don't know if all will run xc next year though. I know I'll still be running!
I ran for a small D1 team, that was in the upper-middle part of the conference for cross country, but one numerous track titles. Our freshman class came in with 7 guys and only 2 made it to graduation. That was the norm, seeing how our coach ran us hard and most distance guys were walk-ons. Our coach gave us a lot of attention during XC season, but once track rolled around he was busy with the sprinters and hurdlers. If you wanted his attention, you better be fast and scoring points. I think most of the distance runners did not like that and would quit.
Malemute Kid wrote:
I think that being in-season for the entire school year, plus a few weeks on either side takes a huge toll. I wonder if there is a lower attrition rate for schools that only sponsor xc/outdoor only or track only. Every other sport gets a break during the school year where athletes can get at least a taste of the "norma" college life. I think this is an important balance to have
From personal experience I say it is either same or even worse than what others have posted. I ran at a school that did not have Men's track due to Title IX, so we could run and race but it was 100% up to each athlete as to whether they chose to do so.
The Spring is when a lot of guys "went off the rails" and lost their place. Runners have to run, it's what we do. When you are not actively engaged in the sport you drift. Most of us needed that restriction on our time in order to keep us on track (pun fully intended.)
Beastie wrote:
From personal experience I say it is either same or even worse than what others have posted. I ran at a school that did not have Men's track due to Title IX, so we could run and race but it was 100% up to each athlete as to whether they chose to do so.
The Spring is when a lot of guys "went off the rails" and lost their place. Runners have to run, it's what we do. When you are not actively engaged in the sport you drift. Most of us needed that restriction on our time in order to keep us on track (pun fully intended.)
I understand this. I meant more of a break from weekly travel and 6 days of scheduled practice a week, few more OYO days and weekends at home do an athlete well mentally. As you point out though, there is a danger of getting out of the routine
Yeah, you'd think that only being in season for 4 mo. would make it easier, but for me, that just wasn't the case. The think about our sport is that you are in season virtually year round.
Summer- base
Fall- competition
Winter- indoor track/ conditioning for track
Spring- outdoor track
I would usually take about 2-3 weeks between seasons of down time, but even then I was just going running, not "training".
I think it has to do with the fact that most college coaches run a shortsighted burnout program. They run their kids into the ground and scratch their heads why it's not working.
The running is brutal, the results are poor and plagued with injury, so it quickly becomes very not fun and any reasonable person will have had enough and quit.
The attrition rate for most programs should be 90%, but that's a testiment to the strength of character that these kids have to be able to endure that kind of punishment.
Almost all our walks ons made it all four years. Some even outperformed the scholarships guys. Many of the scholarships guys ended up quitting- couldn't take losing at the collegiate level after always winning everything in hs.
Another Big South Runner wrote:
Malemute Kid,
you definitely gave it away, but you really think that's a "meat grinder"? Ha.
When he said "meat grinder," I assumed he was talking about U of Minnesota...
I see the problem of retaining athletes as a 3 part problem.. The first is the team culture which is driven by the head coach. The 2nd is the school enviroment ( academic difficulty, social intensity, size etc and the 3rd is the athlete him/herself..Many if not most of the college coaches I know don't care enough about their athletes as people..They see them purely as points at a conference meet or as a potential national performer that will help them add another line on their resume..as a result their training programs especially in xc/ distance running becomes survival of the fittest. Run lots of miles and let's see who's left standing..I think this maybe a bit less prevelant in the DIII schools but not necessarily so.. Some of the better performing DIII schools seem to use this approach as well..
Our current team(D1 bottomfeeder team):
3/5 seniors are still here
2/5 juniors
1/4 sophomores
After this year most likely 3/5 freshies.
Coach is washed up and the team has no drive. Also, training where we're located is hell. Team could be something with a new coach and some motivation.
Southern Guy wrote:
I see the problem of retaining athletes as a 3 part problem.. The first is the team culture which is driven by the head coach. The 2nd is the school environment ( academic difficulty, social intensity, size etc and the 3rd is the athlete him/hersel..
I think #1 cannot be overstated. I ran and made it through but honestly, out team culture was pretty toxic. It was sooo much different from HS. Maybe it's because there was scholarship money at stake, maybe it's just the difference between being 15-18, instead of 18-22, maybe my team were just a buncha A-holes..
Much more of a everyone for themselves attitude.