Do you remember the girl who ran off the track during the NCAA 10k and jumped off a bridge?

Sad but true it happens in high pressure colleges to non runners as well, frequently when someone was the top at their HS and then realize there's a whole lot of people academically and athlstically superior to them in college and they are out of their support bubble and no one is there to calm them. Places like M.I.T. for example have had cluster suicides. Bipolar disorder often kicks in in the late teens, as well.

Rather than suggesting long distance running causes suicide or depression, what about the more elegant idea that those prone to depression, anxiety or suicidal ideation are also drawn to the mood stabilization of running and intense exercise, just like those more prone to depression are drawn to drugs and alcohol?

CauseandEffectisaPuta wrote:

Rather than suggesting long distance running causes suicide or depression, what about the more elegant idea that those prone to depression, anxiety or suicidal ideation are also drawn to the mood stabilization of running and intense exercise, just like those more prone to depression are drawn to drugs and alcohol?

No, no, no. This cannot be true.

What is she doing now? wrote:

I'm sceptical that running was the cause of those unfortunate happenings.

People usually run to calm themselves down.

Ormsby was dean`s list pre-med student, which was definitely high stress.

Herbst was in a stressful academic program as well.

Those were much likely the causes of their stressfulness.

DaneRauschenberg wrote:

Pre Med? Didn't know NC State ever offered that.

That's a quote from the article about Herbst.

"Perhaps Ormsby, a dean`s list pre-med student, and Herbst, an academic as well as athletic All-America, are peculiar. Perhaps they felt the pressures more intensely than other athletes, who find ways to cope."

I agree the stress was most likely from academic pressures and lack of sleep,

rather than from running, which is normally thought of as a stress reliever.

Vera Nikolic in the womens 800m is another example of not coping with intense pressure. This could have ended tragically, but fortunately she came back to win the European Championships in 1971 and finish 5th at the 1972 Olympics. Going in to the 68 Olympics as world record holder she had the weight of the Yugoslav nation on her young shoulders. They had already hung the gold around her neck and even prepared a celebratory stamp to commemorate her expected victory.

From Madeline Manning Jackson's biography Running For Jesus:

I just knew I could hold my pace, and even if a couple of runners passed me, I had enough left to finish among the qualifiers for the finals. Then I began wondering about Vera. I glanced around. My lead was secure but Vera wasn't even second. I couldn't afford to keep looking behind me, but I took one more long glance as I moved into the last curve. No Vera. She wasn't going to challenge me for the lead. She must be running just hard enough to barely qualify and is saving herself for the final, I told myself. But i was wrong. As I crossed the finish line I turned around and looked through all the runners and Vera wasn't there.

Doris Brown, waiting to run in the next heat, had watched our race. What happened to Vera? I asked her, puffing. Then I noticed some of Vera's teammates crying. What's wrong with everybody, Doris? I don't know, mad, Doris said. Vera stopped after 300 meters and just walked off the track and right out of the stadium.

I could hardly believe it. I knew she had a lot of pressure, but she was too tough an athlete to quit a race. No one knew what happened or why. That night i learned that her coach had followed her out of the stadium and up to the footbridge that connected the practice track and the stadium. He saw her climbing the fence on the bridge and caught her just before she tried to jump to her death. It really shook me up. I wanted badly to see her, but they were not letting her talk to anyone ...

The next day, as I left the olympic village to go for the 800 meter finals with Doris ... we noticed Vera with her coach. She was crying. I left the other girls and ran to her.

How are you feeling? I asked, she didn't speak much English but she shrugged and nodded, trying hard to hold back her tears. I took her hands in mine, and thought I knew she wouldn't understand every word, I'd hope she'd understand where i was coming from. She looked amazed that I would break my concentration on the finals just to talk to her. I know that you are a great athlete, I said. I want to see you go back and get yourself together and get your mind together. Pray to God for strength, and when you come back, you'll come out fighting and be the runner I know you are. She cried openly and then nodded as we hugged each other.

A year later at the Europe vs. Americas games in Germany I ran into Vera's coach. How is she? I asked. She's here, he told me. When you stopped to talk to her before your own finals, it brought tears to my eyes. If you hadn't done that, I'm sure she would have given up. It was the turning point in her life. She's back in training, and while she's not in top shape yet, she's coming back. By then she had seen me and ran up to hug me. 3 years later in Munich she was again among the top 5 800 meter women in the world

Utah Girl Chronicles wrote:

In 1986 there was no internet and Kathy many not have known Stephanie Herbst and others were running times that were very close to hers.

There was absolutely no chance in 1986 that the North Carolina State and Wisconsin teams were unaware of each others capabilities.

One situation not mentioned is, in the 1985 NCAA XC meet in Milwaukee, Ormsby blacked out and didn't finish. There was at least one other instance of this happening in her collegiate career as well.

Racewalker finished 5th in '04 Trials; jumps off bridge, suicide:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2004/02/20/sports/olympics-racewalker-is-dead-after-disappointment-in-bid-for-olympics.html

Alright, so... is there video of the Ormsby incident? I don't mean of the jump, I'm sure there isn't, and I wouldn't want to see it. But is there video of that meet / race where you see her just run off the track? I can't be the only morbidly curious person on here.

HandWringingLiberal wrote:

Sad but true it happens in high pressure colleges to non runners as well, frequently when someone was the top at their HS and then realize there's a whole lot of people academically and athlstically superior to them in college and they are out of their support bubble and no one is there to calm them. Places like M.I.T. for example have had cluster suicides. Bipolar disorder often kicks in in the late teens, as well.

Liberalism is a mental disease.

Bleu wrote:

The UPenn girl was a freshman and hadn't even tasted the pressure to come. She had a mental illness and happened to be a runner. Running didn't cause her to commit suicide any more than it did the male runner last yr.

I think in Madison Holleran's case it was a matter of her being the big fish at her high school where the good grades came with ease, then going to a much more competitive environment at UPenn where she wasn't on the tip top any longer. That is what compelled her to decide to jump off that parking garage balcony.

Great post, thanks for sharing.

Agreed. Fantastic book.

Was the bridge located in view of the spectators watching the meet? I can't imagine so, or they would surely have stopped the race. I just first read the headline as though she ran about 50 meters to a visible bridge and leapt from it. Please could somebody confirm that that wasn't the case, as that makes an already terrible situation simply horrifying.

No, the bridge was a half mile from the track. She ran off the back stretch and for the most part wasn't noticed. Last race of the night and the number of spectators was not as high as Penn or Stanford's 10,000. The NC State coach ran after her but didn't see her jump.

You can Google map the whole thing. It's very chilling. I did it about ten years ago and regretted doing so.

Speaking as a trained psychologist, I would diagnose her as cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

You're obviously not a trained psychologist, if so you're pathetic

gahuga wrote:

Alright, so... is there video of the Ormsby incident? I don't mean of the jump, I'm sure there isn't, and I wouldn't want to see it. But is there video of that meet / race where you see her just run off the track? I can't be the only morbidly curious person on here.

I doubt video of the race exists. It wasn't easy to take your own video in 1986 and this race wasn't televised.

IIRC, it wasn't immediately noticed that Ormsby left the stadium. It was likely late in the evening and dark, the backstretch of the stadium had maybe five rows of seats up to street level, and that downtown area was non-residential and a ghost town at that time of day. She probably didn't see a single person before getting to the bridge.