Competitor.com article claims Rupp's Trials Marathon totally changed LetsRunners' opinions of him

zodd wrote:

I will be honest. I did not like him or any NOP athletes prior to 2016. I thought he was an egghead puppet groomed and manufactured by Nike with no voice of his own. I did indeed eagerly await his trials debut (it's always interesting to see how ANY track runner would fare in a marathon), and found myself cheering for him although I never did like African-born Meb very much. In the end I found rupp's quest for an olympic marathon medal pretty inspiring and was on the edge of my seat pulling for him during the last 6 miles. It would be pretty epic if an American-born American won Boston, or became a sub-2:05 guy. If he never runs another good marathon I would put him back in doper sub-human status.

At least your racism is front and center.

bit of both wrote:

I think they're missing a basic fact about all message boards. There are lots of people on both sides, but they aren't equally vocal at all times.

When Rupp wins the Trials, the pro-NOP group will be making more posts and seem more visible. When more doping evidence comes out, the anti-NOP group will be posting more.

This might make it look like a lot of people are changing their opinion from one side to the other, but that's probably no what's happening (except for a small number).

^^^^^ You nailed it.

What people don't realize is that while there always haver been a lot of Rupp haters, there also have been a lot that like him. He's like the Yankees.

If the Trials marathon win was different, and I don't disagree that it wasn't a little bit, it is pretty easily explained.

1) The Marathon Trials are different in that there are no other races distracting people from Rupp. It's just the marathon Trials. When Rupp has a great race at Pre or even USAs on the track, there are 20 other things to talk about so it's not the singular focus of the website. In February of last year, there was ony one other thing to talk about - the women's race.

2) Rupp won a race where everyone was paying attention. Other than the Pre Classic 10k, Rupp doesn't win a lot of races. Yes, he wins US Trials - but everyone expects him to win the 10k at the Trials. The marathon win was totally expected in my book but casual fans may not have know how he was going to do.

3) The marathon has a special prestige for people.

fdfsdfasdfasdf wrote:

zodd wrote:

I will be honest. I did not like him or any NOP athletes prior to 2016. I thought he was an egghead puppet groomed and manufactured by Nike with no voice of his own. I did indeed eagerly await his trials debut (it's always interesting to see how ANY track runner would fare in a marathon), and found myself cheering for him although I never did like African-born Meb very much. In the end I found rupp's quest for an olympic marathon medal pretty inspiring and was on the edge of my seat pulling for him during the last 6 miles. It would be pretty epic if an American-born American won Boston, or became a sub-2:05 guy. If he never runs another good marathon I would put him back in doper sub-human status.

At least your racism is front and center.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that your assumption is true that when this guy says "American born" he really means white.

It's interesting to me how only white people get in trouble for being proud of their race.

The World baseball classic is going on right now. Manny Machado was born and raised in the US. He's American. Who is he playing for? The Dominican Republic.

Why? I don't think it's any different than a white guy being proud of his race

When Leo won his medal, he did a victory lap with the MExican flag. I think Meb used to run with the Eritrean flag.

These guys are all Americans but when they take that flag around the track, aren't they basically saying "Hey I'm proud of my heritage/race?"

rojo wrote:

What people don't realize is that while there always haver been a lot of Rupp haters, there also have been a lot that like him. He's like the Yankees.

And I would add that, while I am a huge Rupp fan (framed poster of him hanging on my wall, etc) I don't feel the need to post in his defense every time the anti-NOP people post a bunch here, and I imagine others feel the same way (probably minus the framed poster).

Seems kind of like a similar phenomenon to Trump during the campaign, in that on a regular basis the anti crowd is much louder and creates the echo chamber effect ("Look! Everyone posting here hates him, that must mean everyone hates him!"). Most people I've talked to like Rupp, or at the very least root for him when he is racing.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

Silver in the Olympics was obviously not enough for the predict my 5km crowd on here.

This! Were any of you out of junior high in 2012? Beating 2 Bekeles in an Olympic final isn't good enough for you?

We all need to support Galen. He is the only U.S. male marathoner that can run competitively with the Africans and anywhere near 2:05. He has the experience and talent but he also has a drive and work ethic that our other U.S. marathoners don't have.

Go Galen.

I ran by him once. He was training doing a cool down, not a workout. I said hi. He snubbed me. The guy isn't the friendliest unless he's doing an interview and faking it.

My opinion hasn't changed. He has a chip on his shoulder.

portland runner true story wrote:

I ran by him once. He was training doing a cool down, not a workout. I said hi. He snubbed me. The guy isn't the friendliest unless he's doing an interview and faking it.

My opinion hasn't changed. He has a chip on his shoulder.

Poor baby. Big mean track star didn't say hi to you.

Grow up.

olyrun wrote:

We all need to support Galen. He is the only U.S. male marathoner that can run competitively with the Africans and anywhere near 2:05. He has the experience and talent but he also has a drive and work ethic that our other U.S. marathoners don't have.

Go Galen.

Hall went sub 2:05 at Boston in 2011 and was competitive with the Africans for a big chunk of his career. Now.... if only he had Galen's testosterone cream regimen, he probably wouldn't have broken down in the later years and would easily have another podium or two to his name.

strongly disagree. elfboy is the worst poster kid for american long distance running. zero personality, shady training, and at times selective racing.

rojo wrote:

fdfsdfasdfasdf wrote:

At least your racism is front and center.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that your assumption is true that when this guy says "American born" he really means white.

It's interesting to me how only white people get in trouble for being proud of their race.

The World baseball classic is going on right now. Manny Machado was born and raised in the US. He's American. Who is he playing for? The Dominican Republic.

Why? I don't think it's any different than a white guy being proud of his race

When Leo won his medal, he did a victory lap with the MExican flag. I think Meb used to run with the Eritrean flag.

These guys are all Americans but when they take that flag around the track, aren't they basically saying "Hey I'm proud of my heritage/race?"

"Xenophobia" was probably a better way to characterize the original comment. The guy sounds like one of those marons who always referred to the former president as "Barack HUSSEIN Obama".... you know, to emphasize his 'foreign-ness'. Because that is all you need to know about a man to determine whether you like him or not. Way to completely misread it and leap to his defense Rojo... you're doing an excellent job. Really, you are.

bit of both wrote:

I think they're missing a basic fact about all message boards. There are lots of people on both sides, but they aren't equally vocal at all times.

When Rupp wins the Trials, the pro-NOP group will be making more posts and seem more visible. When more doping evidence comes out, the anti-NOP group will be posting more.

This might make it look like a lot of people are changing their opinion from one side to the other, but that's probably no what's happening (except for a small number).

You nailed it.

There isn't a lot of nuance in how people perceive much of anything. You can appreciate Rupp's beauty as a runner and marathoner and still ask tough questions about what is going on with the NOP program. But winning at the end of the day is always going to win more fans over.

But look at the lack of nuance in the article saying before the marathon the board was "ordinarily full of ridicule, contempt and slanderous descriptions of Rupp that are unprintable here" and then "It was a complete reversal in tone." The truth is it was much more in the middle with no doubt Rupp's win shifting more people to look favorably on him.

I think that people forget that 15 years ago, there was a lot of thinking that due to superior genetics East Africans were dominating distance running and would continue to do so. It took the likes of Mottram, and then Solinsky to show that Caucasians who weren't born at altitude could compete, and this is why they are considered role models in a way that some people don't find Farah and Keflezighi as inspiring.

One thing Rupp has done is shown that anyone wishing to blame their racial makeup for their inability to cope with the best in the world is looking at the wrong excuse.

I have to say that I think Rupp is 100% guilty fo doping. When Salazar mailed a hollowed out book to him in Europe containing medicines, I think we can be certain that he isn't doing things that were just unethical. However it is possible that Farah hasn't crossed that line. I don't like Farah, but the evidence against him isn't as shocking as that against Rupp

That's a lazily written article. The "Rupp does well = pro Rupp comments and Rupp has syringes = anti Rupp comments" hypothesis is obviously correct.

The "pride in your heritage" thing certainly seems to be a strong aspect of human nature. There's a natural tendency to associate yourself and identify with someone who looks like you. I imagine it's a survival mechanism from the old old days. However, it's foolish to be prideful of your country of birth or you skin tone, things you have no control over. I'm delighted to have been born in a country as prosperous as the US and I (mostly) support and endorse its institutions, but it confers no special status upon me. That's an important distinction. One can take pride in their work or accomplishments. Taking pride in the fact that you happen to be white, brown, or black is a reptilian way of thinking.

Nike cheater wrote:

Now that we know it was only the springy shoes, no.

@Jordan Donnelly - I never wrote this one!

rojo wrote:

fdfsdfasdfasdf wrote:

At least your racism is front and center.

Ok, let's assume for a moment that your assumption is true that when this guy says "American born" he really means white.

It's interesting to me how only white people get in trouble for being proud of their race.

The World baseball classic is going on right now. Manny Machado was born and raised in the US. He's American. Who is he playing for? The Dominican Republic.

Why? I don't think it's any different than a white guy being proud of his race

When Leo won his medal, he did a victory lap with the MExican flag. I think Meb used to run with the Eritrean flag.

These guys are all Americans but when they take that flag around the track, aren't they basically saying "Hey I'm proud of my heritage/race?"

"I'm proud of my white skin."

"I'm proud of my Irish heritage."

Please tell me you see a difference between the two.

rojo wrote:

These guys are all Americans but when they take that flag around the track, aren't they basically saying "Hey I'm proud of my heritage/race?"

Also, Keflezighi has lived in the US since he was 12. Came up through the US HS system. He has always competed as an American, and yes, it is racist to discount his American performances because he wasn't born on American soil.

mkng1 wrote:

I thought trials was expected. What really changed my opinion of him was the Olympic medals. That's next level. On the men's side he was instrumental in changing the mindset that we could compete for and win medals. Webb almost got us there but he couldn't pull it together in world champs. Without Rupp we don't have Centro, Murphy, or Jager.

It's ridiculous the way we hype guys who dominated the EPO era (El G, Komen, Geb, Lance, etc) yet hate on Rupp for pushing the limits but following the letter of the law. I wish he had more personality in interviews to be a better face of track but his talent, work, and accomplishments are undeniable and until proven guilty I'll cheer for him.

My thoughts exactly!

I'd only add that the Brojos NOP vendetta and the haters on LRC don't affect my opinion of Rupp or anyone in NOP.

You are conflating race with nationality.