1978 Crystal Palace 2 mile...Battle Royal... Rono in his prime?

Look ar Rono's racing schedule. Rono was tired.

it is a pity for the public rono was probably 3/4-dead from exhaustion by the time of the race

earlier in same year on same track, rono thrashed ovett over the "official" 3k distance

http://www.thegreatdistancerunners.de/HenryRono.html

7'43.8 thumping ovett by 4s !!!

if Henry had been anywhere near his early season shape, he wouda been looking at ~ 8'07 / 8'08 in the 2nd ovett race

Gnomebe wrote:

Hmmm

Looked flat

Rono's 1978 season

Total 52 Races (40 outdoors, 8 indoors, 3 cross country, 1 road) includes 5 qualifying heats

39 wins, 13 losses

1st (39), 2nd (4), 3rd (3), 4th (1), 5th (1), 6th (1), 237th (1), dnf (2)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Indoors: 8 races: 3 wins, 5 losses

1st (3), 2nd (1), 3rd (2), 4th (1), 6th (1)

-------------------------------------------------

Outdoors: 40 races: 33 wins, 7 losses

1st (33), 2nd (3), 3rd (1), 5th (1), dnf (2)

1 mile: 1 win, 2 losses…1st (1), 2nd (1), dnf (1)

2000: 1 loss…5th (1)

3000: 5 wins, 1 loss…1st (5), 3rd (1)

3000sc: 9 wins, 2 losses…1st (9), 2nd (1), dnf (1)

2 mile: 1 win, 1 loss…1st (1), 2nd (1)

5000: 12 wins…1st (12)

10000: 5 wins…1st (5)

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Roads 1 race: 1 win, 0 losses

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Cross Country 3 races; 2 wins, 1 loss

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The Races:

1/21 1 8:18.3 CR 2 mile Sunkist Invitational Los Angeles, CA

1/22 1 4:00.9 1 mile Vandal Invitatioanl Moscow, ID

1/28 1 27:48.6 10000 International Auckland, NZ

2/5 1 1:04:46 HM San Blas HM Coamo, PR

2/10 4 13:24.6 3 mile Maple Leaf Games Toronto, Canada

2/17 3 8:20.0 2 mile Jack-in-the-box San Diego, CA

2/18 3 4:01.6 1 mile Examiner Games Daly City, CA

3/10 1 4:12.2h 1 mile NCAA Detroit, MI

3/11 2 8:43.4 2 mile NCAA Detroit, MI

3/11 6 4:50.0 1 mile NCAA Detroit, MI

3/28 1 13:31.8 5000 San Jose Relays San Jose, CA

4/1 1 13:22.7 5000 SCC Spokane, WA snowstorm

4/8 1 13:08.4 WR 5000 Triangular Meet Berkeley, CA attendance 2000 70 degrees sunny

4/15 1 8:14.8 CR 3000sc WSU vs UO Eugene, OR

4/22 1 4:00.9 1 mile Quadrangular Meet Pasco, WA

4/29 1 8:24.4 3000sc WSU vs UW Pullman, WA

5/7 1 7:43.0 3000 Pepsi Invitational Los Angeles, CA

5/13 1 8:05.4 WR 3000sc Northwest Relays Seattle, WA rain, hail, windy, 55 degrees, 200+ attendance

5/19 1 27:46.6 10000 Pac 8 Conference Corvallis, OR

5/19 dnf 3000sc Pac 8 Conference Corvallis, OR

5/20 1 13:20.2 5000 Pac 8 Conference Corvallis, OR

5/24 1 7:43.9 3000 Phillips Invitational London, GBR

6/1 1 8:18.6h 3000sc NCAA Eugene, OR

6/1 1 13:21.8h 5000 NCAA Eugene, OR

6/3 1 8:12.4 3000sc NCAA Eugene, OR

6/11 1 27:22.5 WR 10000 International Vienna, AUT after a soccer game, 500 attendance 72 degrees, no wind

6/18 1 13:32.0 5000 African Games Mombassa, KEN

6/22 1 7:41.5 3000 Sportfest Cologne, GER

6/24 1 13:20.8 5000 British AAA London, GBR

6/27 1 7:32.1 WR 3000 Bislett Games Oslo, NOR

6/28 1 8:16.8 3000sc World Games Helsinki, FIN

7/2 1 13:18.2 5000 International Milano, ITA

7/20 1 27:58.9 10000 African Games Algiers, ALG

7/25 1 8:15.8 3000sc African Games Algiers, ALG

8/2 5 5:17.0 2000 International Edmonton, CAN

8/6 1 8:26.3h 3000sc Commonwealth Games Edmonton, CAN

8/7 1 8:26.5 3000sc Commonwealth Games Edmonton, CAN

8/8 1 14:02.2h 5000 Commonwealth Games Edmonton, CAN

8/10 1 13:23.0 5000 Commonwealth Games Edmonton, CAN

8/16 1 13:16.1 5000 Weltklasse Zurich, SWI

9/5 3 7:45.3 3000 International Frankfurt, GER

9/7 2 8:17.5 3000sc International Kloblenz, GER

9/9 1 27:53.8 10000 GBR vs FIN (guest) London, GBR

9/10 1 13:15.5 5000 International Rieti, ITA

9/12 1 7:49.3 3000 International Ingleheim, GER

9/15 2 8:14.7 2 mile Coca Cola London, GBR

9/17 2 4:03.8 1 mile International Gateshead, GBR

9/20 1 8:32.7 2 mile International Oslo, NOR

9/25 dnf 1 mile International Tokyo, JPN

10/28 1 23:37.2 8000xc Pac 10 Divisional Pullman, WA

11/11 1 29:22.0 10000xc Pac-10 District Fresno, CA

11/20 237 34:10.7 10000xc NCAA Madison, WI

The World Records: 81 days duration, without the aid of pacemakers, unless you consider 13:48 (10k WR) and 3:49.5 (3k WR) “pacemaking”?

4/8 1 13:08.4 WR 5000 Triangular Meet Berkeley, CA (:49.6 margin, Josh Kimeto, 13:58.0)

5/13 1 8:05.4 WR 3000sc Northwest Relays Seattle, WA (:30.7 margin, Jim Johnson 8:36.1)

6/11 1 27:22.5 WR 10000 International Vienna, AUT (:30.5 margin, Domingo Tibaduiza 27:53.0)

6/27 1 7:32.1 WR 3000 Bislett Games Oslo, NOR (:8.2 margin, Suleiman Nyambui 7:40.3)

The Splits

=============================

WR 5000m Berkley, CA 5/8/78 70 degrees, sunny

1. 13:08.4 Henry Rono

2. 13:58.0 Josh Kimeto

3. 14:03.0 Samson Kimobwa

1:07 (67)

2:10 (63)

3:14 (64)

4:15 (61) 1600m

5:18 (63)

6:20 (62)

7:24 (64)

8:28 (64) 3200m

9:31 (63)

10:35 (64)

11:38 (63)

12:09 (31) 4600m

13:08 (59.4)

(2:42.0, 2:36.0, 2:39.5, 2:37.0, 2:33.9)

==========================

WR steeplechase Seattle WA 5/13/78 hail, rain, windy, 55 degrees. 200+ attendance.

1: 8:05.4 Henry Rono WSU

2. 8:36.1 Jim Johnson CNW

3. 8:52.1 Evens WSU

4. 8:54.7 Barr CNW

63.8

66.2 (2:10.0)

64.0 (3:14.0)

65.5 (4:19.5)

65.3 (5:24.8)

65.1 (6:29.9)

61.4 last lap

After the last lap, the wind really came to life, hitting 15-20 mph. “It was very hard after 5 laps,” he said. “The last 200 meters were hard too.”

=====================================

WR 10000, Vienna AUT 72 degrees 500 attendance Jos Hermans paced first 9 laps

1. 27:22.5 Henry Rono, KEN

2. 27:53.0 Domingo Tibaduiza, COL

3. 27:58.9 Joel Cheruiyot, KEN

2:47.5

13:48.2

22:02.1

27:22.5 13:34.3 57.0

=========================

WR 3000m Oslo, NOR 6/27/78

1. 7:32.1 Henry Rono KEN

2. 7:40.3 Sulieman Nyambui, TAN

3. 7:40.4 Nick Rose GBR

2:34.0

3:49.5 1500 Rono takes lead

4:04.5 60.0

5:04.5 60.0 2:30.5

6:04.5 60.0

7:03.5 59.0

7:32.1 28.6 2:27.6 3:42.6

calculo wrote:

if Henry had been anywhere near his early season shape, he wouda been looking at ~ 8'07 / 8'08 in the 2nd ovett race

Um, Ovett was jogging. If Rono went 8:07 Ovett would have went 8:05.

... and hung over as well. The overracing was all his and his coach/agent's doing.

Rose?

Coughlan?

Any others in the field?

Ovett was tired too wrote:Um, Ovett was jogging. If Rono went 8:07 Ovett would have went 8:05.

no he wouldn't

did you not read above that in same season Henry thrashed ovett in 7'43.84 to 7'48.02 !!!

if Henry had energy left by that late-season 2 miles, he wouda broken ovett by about 6 laps & won in about 8'07 & ovett something like 8'09/8'10

ovett also got huge drafting advantage, at ~ 0.7s/lap, meaning to bell, he had put in ~ 0.7 * 7.64 laps = 5.348s less effort compared to Henry or in layman's terms' he had reached bell having put in 5.348s less effort than henry & that saved energy available for last lap kick

calculo wrote:

Ovett was tired too wrote:Um, Ovett was jogging. If Rono went 8:07 Ovett would have went 8:05.

no he wouldn't

did you not read above that in same season Henry thrashed ovett in 7'43.84 to 7'48.02 !!!

if Henry had energy left by that late-season 2 miles, he wouda broken ovett by about 6 laps & won in about 8'07 & ovett something like 8'09/8'10

ovett also got huge drafting advantage, at ~ 0.7s/lap, meaning to bell, he had put in ~ 0.7 * 7.64 laps = 5.348s less effort compared to Henry or in layman's terms' he had reached bell having put in 5.348s less effort than henry & that saved energy available for last lap kick

How do you work that out. The much quicker Komen had 38 seconds between his 3000m and 2 mile world records. If Rono was as quick (he isn't), his 7:32 would translate to an 8:10. But given he's slower with a far slower 5k time, it more likely translates to an 8:11 or 8:12 or even 8:14 which he in fact ran.

AndyG wrote:How do you work that out. The much quicker Komen had 38 seconds between his 3000m and 2 mile world records. If Rono was as quick (he isn't), his 7:32 would translate to an 8:10. But given he's slower with a far slower 5k time, it more likely translates to an 8:11 or 8:12 or even 8:14 which he in fact ran

do some research

his 7'32.1 was off jog to 1500 of 3'49.6 !!! or 7'39.2 pace

his last 1/2 was in 3'42.5 or 7'25.0 pace

Henry was maintaining or quickening in last 1800 :

1200 - 1600 in 60.0

1600 - 2000 in 60.0

2000 - 2400 in 60.0

2400 - 2800 in 59.0

last 200 in 27.7 !!

his last lap was 57.6 !!

he was in hugely < 7'30 shape that day but already long season catching up

apply x 1.08 to that...

Take a look at the times of his races. Most of them were practically tempo runs. Not very tiring and saved him the bother of training.

Rono only beat Ovett earlier because Ovett was not well practiced at running beyond his best distances.

some classic Henry stories :http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1540124

with some detective work that 5k race seems to be the milan race he won in '78 in actual 13'18.2 winning by 13s !!!

doing some math :

running say in inner lane 3, or ~ 2.44m from pole in lane 1 for 12.5 laps is running for the 13 bends

~ 13 * 2.44m * pi = 99.65m !!!

dixon's rule-of-thumb math looks virtually spot on !!!

if he ran 13'18.2 for ~ 5100m, then for 5k he ran

~ 13'02.5 !!

with likely uneven pace thrown in knocking it well below 13

then consider no drafting as alone in lane 3 & in circuit race, you shoud get drafting to 3k worth 0.7s per lap for 7.5 laps -> 5.25s

-> at worst 12'55 in a drafted-to-3k race at even pace

then knock off want you want for "absolute downpour", i'd suggest 5 - 10s seeing as dixon ran 13'17.3 that same year & nearer 13'35 in milan ->

dry weather for Henry

~ 12'45 - 12'50

( probably near quick end )

further supporting evidence here well past his peak in in his 13'06.2WR :

to run flat-out for over an hour earlier in day, which probably was 10 - 12 miles for hs calibre + handicap of massive hangover, then asked to run 5k WR in afternoon is beyond incredible !!!

the hangover + the 10 - 12 miles in his legs at fierce pace musta cost at least 15 - 20s for his 5k attempt

that itself had poor splits, with only 7'55.0 at 3k ( 13'11+ pace ) & he kicked in a 56.0 finish !!

the uneven pacing pacing probably cost 5s

the estimate for his well-past-peak-'82 run for "ideal" is therefore

13'06.2 minus 15 to 20s for hangover & fierce 10 - 12 mile run earlier in day

minus 4 or 5s for uneven pacing ->

12'41.2 - 12'47.2

i'd reckon fair value is

~ 12'45

in '81 if in perfect race, fully healthy/rested, drafted smoothly to 3k & that likely past his peak wrecked by booze & obviously that clocking in generally assumed peak year of '78

Ovett was tired too wrote:

Take a look at the times of his races. Most of them were practically tempo runs. Not very tiring and saved him the bother of training.

.

What the hell are you talking about?

Ovett was tired too wrote:

Take a look at the times of his races. Most of them were practically tempo runs. Not very tiring and saved him the bother of training.

Rono only beat Ovett earlier because Ovett was not well practiced at running beyond his best distances.

Quit while you are behind. Ovett had a better kick than Rono but you know very little about the sport. You don't even have a clear notion of what a tempo run is.

Ovett was tired too wrote:Rono only beat Ovett earlier because Ovett was not well practiced at running beyond his best distances

is this a joke ???

on 24th May '78 he gets hammered by Henry over 3k by 4+s !!!

on 15th September, he beats Henry

ovett ran no distance longer than 2k, a semi-impressive 4'57.8, during that period, so what practice did he have for going to pawn-pusher to kasparov in 3 months ?!

calculo wrote:

AndyG wrote:How do you work that out. The much quicker Komen had 38 seconds between his 3000m and 2 mile world records. If Rono was as quick (he isn't), his 7:32 would translate to an 8:10. But given he's slower with a far slower 5k time, it more likely translates to an 8:11 or 8:12 or even 8:14 which he in fact ran

do some research

his 7'32.1 was off jog to 1500 of 3'49.6 !!! or 7'39.2 pace

his last 1/2 was in 3'42.5 or 7'25.0 pace

Henry was maintaining or quickening in last 1800 :

1200 - 1600 in 60.0

1600 - 2000 in 60.0

2000 - 2400 in 60.0

2400 - 2800 in 59.0

last 200 in 27.7 !!

his last lap was 57.6 !!

he was in hugely < 7'30 shape that day but already long season catching up

apply x 1.08 to that...

You're assuming negative splitting wasn't his optimal, which is probably right to the extent with 7 seconds difference. But Rono ran many of his records in this way. Most records last lap generally is 2-3 seconds quicker than the average pace anyway, if not more.

It is an interesting observation that Rono probably could have gone quicker I think I agree. I also think Ovett could have broke the 1500m/Mile WR in '77 onwards but didn't. He is probably much better over 800m than his 1:44 indicates given Coe didn't run faster than Ovett over the last 400 in 1980.

Also who's to say Ovett couldn't have hung onto a quicker pace against Rono? He might not have done but he also might have done. His aerobic base was pretty strong. He entered a half marathon after not being able to race elsewhere against a good field as a training run and won it.

1 things for sure an in shape Ovett absolutely leaves Rono for dead in a 7:43 3k.

calculo wrote:

it is a pity for the public rono was probably 3/4-dead from exhaustion by the time of the race

earlier in same year on same track, rono thrashed ovett over the "official" 3k distance

http://www.thegreatdistancerunners.de/HenryRono.html

7'43.8 thumping ovett by 4s !!!

if Henry had been anywhere near his early season shape, he wouda been looking at ~ 8'07 / 8'08 in the 2nd ovett race

So why was a Kenyan or Ethiopian team even in Montreal?

i'd bet my eye-tooth that Henry was in '78 or perhaps even again in his supernovic-finale in '81 in

~ 12'45

the question is, what line of fit does that give him ?

the caveat is, that he maya been better 5k runner than 10k, running his 10ks primarily off 5k training

( so, following 10k estimates may need slowing but everything from 800 - 3k inclusive are sound

( similar to a mo, who is primarily 3k/1500/5k guy, running 10k off it, but lucky no one tried to blast 26'30 from gun in his 10k races ) )

but you need malmo to answer this as he is expert on this topic amongst many others in the sport

given 12'45, the question is 400 speed which can only be in 50.0 - 52.0 range for such a beast

( you don't crush ovett by 4s in a slow 3k unless you got speed !!! )

12'45.00 / 52.00 ->

1'49.05

3'33.05

4'49.31

7'25.04

7'59.55

26'33.12

12'45.00 / 51.00 ->

1'47.60

3'31.27

4'47.50

7'23.53

7'58.15

26'39.98

12'45.00 / 50.00 ->

1'46.15

3'29.48

4'45.68

7'22.01

7'56.74

26'46.84

looking at above 3 choices, my experience/reading/analysis is drawn to latter 2, as I believe he had some serious wheels

i'd therefore go for 50.50 speed ->

12'45.00 / 50.50 ->

1'46.87

3'30.37

4'46.59

7'22.77

7'57.44

26'43.41

the main implication is that in '78, he shouda run some circuit, flat-out 1500s, but not against ovett

the above indicates Henry couda smashed bayi's 3'32.1wr & got it into the 3'30s

he is only man in history who was definitely capable of breaking 4 track-gold-event-WRs in history

( i haven't checked nurmi for track wrs, but iharos ran 1500/5k/10k wrs but you can't thrown in 3kSC as a given if you haven't run it & he never did )

Les wrote:

... and hung over as well. The overracing was all his and his coach/agent's doing.

Rono was also a world champion drinker.