How strong is the half marathon WR? Could Kenny B beat it?

Ridiculo.

TrackBot! VDOT 26:17 10K

Thanks a lot TrackBot.

(Kenenisa Bekele = The Greatest Runner of All Time On This Planet)

Kenenisa will see you in London.

Expect "something special" in London.

VDOT for 26:17 10km: 85.1

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:00:58

Half marathon: 00:57:44

15K: 00:40:14

10K: 00:26:16

5K: 00:12:36

3Mi: 00:12:08

2Mi: 00:07:49

3200m: 00:07:46

3K: 00:07:14

1Mi: 00:03:39

1600m: 00:03:38

1500m: 00:03:23

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

rfmaioral wrote:

...s any runner at any point in history that was able to produce a sub 58 HM. One would need an athlete with the strenght of Tadese and a 26:20 10k, a time that Tadese itself was never able to produce.

....

I'm not saying he definitely "could have", but I would think that Geb in the late 90s, with the right conditions and incentive could have certainly approached the 58 barrier. He was the first man under 59 on a solo run and late into his career. He also had some ~27 flat road 10000s too back in his prime. 58 flat is very close to 27:30 per 10k. Could a guy that had run 26:22 (track) and 27:01 (road) slow down 30 seconds per 10000 to double it?

I don't know why you all don't use this wonderful two point calculator over at

timescalculator.appspot.com

You put in two times, and using a logarithmic formula, it calculates times for a bunch of distances!

KB could have run in his prime:

1:48 800

3:32 1500

7:21 3000

12:37 5000

26:17 10000

57:54 half

2:00:18 marathon

maybe a bit off since he had time to dial in on the 5000 and 10000 PRs individually. At the time that he ran the 10, he may have only been capable of 12:45 in the 5; likewise, when he ran the 5, he may have only been able to do 26:30 in the 10.

Because of this, during his prime 10k shape he definitely could have moved to the marathon and shattered the WR.

It doesn't hurt that he could run 3:32 in the 1500.

Kennster is not a hobby jogger.

Yes and no. Bekele's anaerobic work capacity is, without a doubt, better than Tadese's, which is why you see Bekele running much faster at 1500/3000/5000. 10,000 you're getting to that point where that AWC is much more spread out, and thus the percentages are narrowing. However, given the length of the 10,000, that event is moving heavily, heavily in the direction of aerobic contribution to exercise. Probably 95-98% depending on the athlete. Moreover, most agree that Bekele's 10k was probably on the soft side, and likely Bekele could have run sub 26:10.

Put all that together, and I think you have a pretty clear picture that suggests that Bekele is better than Tadese both aerobically and from an AWC standpoint.

Now, half marathon gets a little bit interesting because there is a third component to worry about, fatigue resistance at threshold. Time to exhaustion at threshold varies for different athletes. Some might be able to hold threshold for 35 minutes, others for over an hour. This makes a significant difference over half marathon's nearly hour long duration. If your time to exhaustion isn't long enough, you will struggle. It's trainable, but also has individual variability, and you could have an athlete with a greater threshold losing to an athlete with a slightly lower threshold but longer TTE.

We have no way of knowing, but it's possible that one of the reasons Tadessy is so good at HM is because his efficiency plays a role in him having a much longer TTE and subsequently better half marathon performances.

The best HM runner was Wanjiru who broke the record on several occasions, sometimes running huge parts of the race on his own, eventually taking it down to 58:33 before moving to the marathon at an early age. Tadese just lowered the record by a few seconds after several attempts. I believe Wanjiru was capable of lowering it even further, especially if he had pacers able to carry him to 10km@27:30.

I think everybody doesn't consider a very important point : all the results in 10000m of the best HM runners (Zersenay Tadese and Sammy Wanjiru) were in the same race of Kenenisa, WHO WAS THE BEST POSSIBLE PACER FOR THEM, when instead he had to run the second 5 km completely alone.

This means his PB in 10000m is very far from his real value. And, when Kenenisa bettered the WR, once was not in full shape, another time was sick, so we can think his real value could be about 26'05".

This means the analysis of Trackbot is completely wrong.

Mo Farah has a much more realistic shot at the half marathon record.

He ran 26:40s under control less than two years ago and has shown stength in the half marathon before.

hey everyone!

58:23 is 4:27 pace.

that's 4:27.21

per mile.

13.1 times.

13:50 5k pace

22:08 8k pace

27:40 10k pace

44:32 10 mile pace

that's effing insane!

let it sink in, it's significant.

Mr Renato Canova.Thank you for sharing. That's a rather sensible way to look at this, glad you offered your perspective in this forum.I think it's worth noting, in all of these "who is the GOAT" threads, how the people running against Gebresalassie and K Bekele ended up running. If the others up for consideration PB'd in the same race(s), it means a lot, like you say. not only the best runners, but helping other runners be their best thank you

Renato Canova wrote:

I think everybody doesn't consider a very important point : all the results in 10000m of the best HM runners (Zersenay Tadese and Sammy Wanjiru) were in the same race of Kenenisa, WHO WAS THE BEST POSSIBLE PACER FOR THEM, when instead he had to run the second 5 km completely alone.

This means his PB in 10000m is very far from his real value. And, when Kenenisa bettered the WR, once was not in full shape, another time was sick, so we can think his real value could be about 26'05".

This means the analysis of Trackbot is completely wrong.

TrackBot! VDOT 26:05 10K

It is not a big deal.

VDOT for 26:05 10km: 85.9

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:00:01

Half marathon: 00:57:17

15K: 00:39:55

10K: 00:26:04

5K: 00:12:30

3Mi: 00:12:03

2Mi: 00:07:45

3200m: 00:07:42

3K: 00:07:10

1Mi: 00:03:38

1600m: 00:03:36

1500m: 00:03:22

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

alabamarunner wrote:

I don't know why you all don't use this wonderful two point calculator over at

timescalculator.appspot.com

You put in two times, and using a logarithmic formula, it calculates times for a bunch of distances!

KB could have run in his prime:

1:48 800

3:32 1500

7:21 3000

12:37 5000

26:17 10000

57:54 half

2:00:18 marathon

Thanks for the appreciation!

However, if you use the Optimizer link on the website, you'll see that Bekele could have run ~12:33 and ~26:0X. He ran both of his 5k and 10k world records by himself with not perfect pacing. Likewise, I think that Tadesse's or Wanjiru's half marathon PB times were done with very uneven splits (so even they are faster than 58:23). I think a better representation of Bekele's ability back then is:

400 0:51.72

800 1:47.29

1000 2:16.09

1500 3:29.55

1-mile 3:45.79

3000 7:17.83

2-mile 7:51.69

5000 12:33.0

10000 26:10.0

half-mara 57:39.89

marathon 119:57.97

I don't think there's anyway he was slower much slower than Geb at 1500. Geb ran a 3:29 or 3:30. Bekele's 1500m PR of 3:32 was done with the first lap in 54 or 55 seconds. He was better than his official time.

The Trackbot is a bit ridiculous (and probably more irritating than Ventolin) but I disagree that Bekele had 26:05 in him.

That 10000 WR was a very good day for Bekele and I don't believe solo for 5000 cost him much. Every WR has to be solo at some point. If Bekele is underestimated at any distance I would expect his 1500/3000 bests as more likely the ones below true capability. He seldom raced either in any meaningful way.

Most distance runners get sick from overreaching, which forces what would have otherwise been an involuntary taper, which then helps performance.

Wanjiru was the other one with a chance for

dsrunner wrote:

The Trackbot is a bit ridiculous (and probably more irritating than Ventolin) but I disagree that Bekele had 26:05 in him.

That 10000 WR was a very good day for Bekele and I don't believe solo for 5000 cost him much.

Bekele's 10000km 1000km-splits ranged from 2:32 to 2:42. Part of the problem with being the fastest runner is that there are no pacemakers for you. I think he could have run significantly faster official times at all distances.

guys,

look at the video. i just checked it out because i realized i've never seen it.

To watch someone hold that pace for 13.1 is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5tcgpHIaw0

>>>>>>>>>>>> = You are wrong again Albuterol=Salbutamol=???

1500m PRs for Geb:

1500 metres outdoor 3:33.73 6 June 1999 Stuttgart, Germany

1500 metres indoor 3:31.76 1 February 1998 Stuttgart, Germany

You have done a great job again.

Well done.

You must be very proud that... you are wrong again.

That is not a surprise at all.

It is like deja vu all over again.

rjm33 wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>> = You are wrong again Albuterol=Salbutamol=???

1500m PRs for Geb:

1500 metres outdoor 3:33.73 6 June 1999 Stuttgart, Germany

1500 metres indoor 3:31.76 1 February 1998 Stuttgart, Germany

You have done a great job again.

Well done.

You must be very proud that... you are wrong again.

That is not a surprise at all.

It is like deja vu all over again.

Ahh well nevermind. For some reason, I thought Geb had run 3:29 or 3:30. Maybe I was confusing him with Komen who did run 3:29. I don't understand the rest of your post (being wrong again, deja vu, and prescription drug-sounding words?).