I have read that they should not go above 40mpw. I want some other opinions.
I have read that they should not go above 40mpw. I want some other opinions.
Some 800 runners run well off 60 MPW.
Others run well off of 30.
It really depends on the sort of program the runner is following and the type of runner they are. 30 miles/week with a ton of quality speed work can lead a 4/8 guy to great results. 70 mpw in base and >50 mpw in season can lead an 8/15 guy to great results.
There's no reason high school 800 runners shouldn't go above 40 mpw.
Two 2:00 guys can have entirely different approaches to the event. I've seen 51/2:00/4:50 and I've seen 55/2:00/4:20, and while the former PR line is more common on the high school level, neither is inherently superior to the other.
As many as posssible. The 800 is still mainly aerobic
cali boy wrote:
Some 800 runners run well off 60 MPW.
Others run well off of 30.
It really depends on the sort of program the runner is following and the type of runner they are. 30 miles/week with a ton of quality speed work can lead a 4/8 guy to great results. 70 mpw in base and >50 mpw in season can lead an 8/15 guy to great results.
There's no reason high school 800 runners shouldn't go above 40 mpw.
Two 2:00 guys can have entirely different approaches to the event. I've seen 51/2:00/4:50 and I've seen 55/2:00/4:20, and while the former PR line is more common on the high school level, neither is inherently superior to the other.
What is considered speed work for 800m? Would it be the same as a sprinters?
HSMIDD wrote:
What is considered speed work for 800m? Would it be the same as a sprinters?
It's similar, but not identical. For pure speed development, 800 guys should focus on plyometrics, very short stride intervals (under 60m), and shorter hill sprints (20 - 30m). Keep the rest short on these intervals.
There are a couple key differences between this and what a sprinter would do. Sprinters doing a short interval workout (say sets of 4x50m) might be taking 2 or 3 minute recovery periods. As an 800 guy, you don't want to do this--build the aerobic component into it; keep your recoveries on short intervals short. You also don't need to be spending anywhere near as much time as true sprinters in the weight room--gaining strength is good, but bulking up will hurt you over 800m.
Another key thing is to not confuse 150s, 200s, or 300s with pure speed development. Fast longer repeats are a critical part of 800m training, but they fall into a very different realm than pure speed.
There isn't a ton of stuff online about 800m training (especially for high school guys who are running >2 minutes), but I recommend checking out the Sub 1:50 800 thread on this site, pieces published on Sebastian Coe's training, and the stuff Guthrie published about his coaching of UW-Lacrosse mid-d guys in the 1990s and early 2000s, all of which are great resources.
P snell wrote:
As many as posssible. The 800 is still mainly aerobic
Also going to say that this is sort of true.
During base phase, 8/15 training is pretty similar to 15/5k training. A lot of miles help build a strong aerobic base which translates well into better workouts come outdoor season.
That being said, increased mileage has diminishing--and can have negative--returns. If an athlete feels that he isn't recovering from hard efforts, it can be good to cut back on mileage. If an athlete is raising intensity, cutting (or if doing very low mpw, maintaining) mileage is key to avoiding injury. Doing higher mileage at the expense of strides, plyometric circuits, etc. is also not a good plan--if you have to choose between high mileage and speed development for the 800, most high school athletes are better off choosing speed development (with some exceptions).
This is a pretty long topic that I could definitely go more in-depth on, but again, check out the things I mentioned in my previous post--there's a lot of good info there.
good advice; would argue that doing the sprinter-type alactic/CP ATP workouts with sufficient rest (up to 5m) makes a lot of sense for 800 runners also to build max speed.
I read an article, I think it was on complete track and feild, where someone would have the sprinters 800m types do 1200m cruise intervals with a 60 second break instead of a long run. Would this be smart?
HSMIDD wrote:
I read an article, I think it was on complete track and feild, where someone would have the sprinters 800m types do 1200m cruise intervals with a 60 second break instead of a long run. Would this be smart?
The real question there is: are you a sprinter 800 type?
Because most high school kids who think they are 4/8 guys are undertrained 8/15 guys. If you're running, say, 56/2:10/5:00 [mile] (which is something I see frequently), you're not a sprinter type--you just haven't done enough aerobic work.
True 4/8 guys--even in high school--have really good natural speed. We're talking about kids that can run
800 metres runners come in various shapes and sizes. If you are bigger than 6'0" 165 lbs., if you do not run XC and if you are on your school's varsity "A" 4 x 400 metres relay team, keep your mileage under 30 miles per week as a high school person. If you are a varsity XC runner, if you race varsity (800 to 3200) metres, if you are not on varsity "A" 4 x 400 metres relay team and if you are under 6'0" 165 lbs., you may want to run a few more miles per week. Owen Anderson, PhD and David Martin, PhD (both physiologists) both state one's 800 metres PB will be strongly correlated with one's 400 metres PB. Both men do not find strong correlation of 800 metres PB with events 1500 metres and longer. Running more than 30 miles per week pure road mileage will not improve your 400 metres PB.
cali boy wrote:
HSMIDD wrote:I read an article, I think it was on complete track and feild, where someone would have the sprinters 800m types do 1200m cruise intervals with a 60 second break instead of a long run. Would this be smart?
The real question there is: are you a sprinter 800 type?
Because most high school kids who think they are 4/8 guys are undertrained 8/15 guys. If you're running, say, 56/2:10/5:00 [mile] (which is something I see frequently), you're not a sprinter type--you just haven't done enough aerobic work.
True 4/8 guys--even in high school--have really good natural speed. We're talking about kids that can run
I'm actually a sprinter that wantshe to move up. Last year I was a little chubby and I ran a 52:xx last outdoor.
My Sophomore Season of Track, last year, I ran 52/2:00/4:36 off of 35-40 mpw. A lot of those miles came on my Sunday long run, 10-14 miles. I think it depends on the runner, whether your more speed or distance based.
I was 5'7" 135lbs in HS running 49-50//1:54-2:00(depending on where in the season) in the 400 and 800. I focused mainly on speed work. We had one "long day" a week and it was 3-5 miles. These miles were negative split (as many workouts were) so the last 1.5-2.5 miles were at a tempo (quality). Including workouts I wasn't running more than 20mpw, and never ran a workout rep over 600m. I hate the talk of base training and high mileage, as it killed my fast twitch and strength(which I found out in college). Playing soccer in the fall is the best base training you can do for 400-1500m.
If you're getting in quality workouts, there is no need for high mileage (or really any) for a 4/8 guy.
The correlation between 400 and 800 times is very strong. Especially when other body mass scaling factors are applied. Mileage doesn't explain much.
Nobody runs a great 800 without respectably good to outstanding 4x 400 split capability.
But 4x 400 split capability is still a good predictor of 1600 and up. A well conditioned HS runner should manage a 1600 best ~4.8 x 4x 400 split speed.