The GOAT of Distance Running IS NOT Kenenisa Bekele or Haile Gebresallaise

said88 wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Talking about scalps someone collected is ridiculous. All great runners have bad races where their scalp is gathered by non-greats. Ngugi sometimes came in DFL.

And this can be definitively settled between Aouita and 800+ GOAT Augustine Choge:

800: Aouita slightly faster

1500: about dead even

3000: Choge faster

5000: Choge much faster

winner: Choge

Ah - still ADDING the times!? That's our good old mate THE BAD.

But you forgot Venuste Niyongabo (or Niyonbongo - using the language of your old friend Ventolin)

slightly slower over 800m (0.25s)

much faster over 1500m (0.29s)

winner: Niyongabo

Oh boy.

…I feel like I am going to pass out…again…

Bad Malcolmo Gladwello Wiginisio has done it again!

How does he do it?

Bad WigPET™ is a genius…again.

Aouita was best over 3000m, he was about 2s off in the 800m, Crams' mile time was better than his 1500m WR, he only barely improved Moorcroft's 5000m WR. But his 3000m was his best performance.

On the track ffs...Kenny B. track, road, x.c. untouchable-honorable mention John Ngugi.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Crams' mile time was better than his 1500m WR.

Cram's Mile PB was not better than Aouita's 1500m PB . How did you come to this conclusion?

They are close together, but still the 3:29.46 is the superiour mark I think.

Realist guy wrote:

Quality Qontrol wrote:

While we can suspect that the East Africans may have doped, we can be certain that Aouita did so. Not only that, but he brought the infection of doping to North Africa almost single-handedly. A less-deserving "GOAT" one could hardly imagine.

Whether or not someone doped has nothing to do with whether they are the GOAT.

Sure, it does. This is not the all-drug Olympics. If you get into a car and drive around the track faster than everyone else, you are not better at running than the other athletes. If you cheated, it simply should not count. Aouita may have been clean prior to his famous turn to weight lifting. I would assume that the move to weight lifting is the main place where Western runners are introduced to steroids. That includes Seb Coe and Mary Decker as well (from thrower husband) in the 1980s.

3:29.46x1.08=3:46.2168, slightly quicker than 3:46.32, but Aouita did have many chances to beat the mile record and while he broke 3:47, he could not touch it. The mathematical factor tends to favor the 1500m even in the many years when there are numerous paced miles to try. Aouita's best miles were 3:46.76 and 3:46.92 in 87 and 85. Hicham El Guerroj is certainly the best ever Moroccan. He never proved it at 800m or 10000m, let alone steeple, but he ran 3:26.00/3:43.12/12:49, so was markedly, markedly better than Aouita. He also won his leg of a road race at maybe 15k early in his career and did fast ten milers regularly, so I have no doubt that his endurance would have translated to a sub 27 10k easily, as well as a 1:42 or better in the 800m. He didn't do it but come on! He closed Athens 1500m in 2004 in around 1:46, right?

jjjjjjj wrote:

Realist guy wrote:

Whether or not someone doped has nothing to do with whether they are the GOAT.

Sure, it does. This is not the all-drug Olympics. If you get into a car and drive around the track faster than everyone else, you are not better at running than the other athletes. .

But if you put on shoes and run around the track faster than everyone else, you ARE better at running that the other athletes.

jjjjjjj wrote:

3:29.46x1.08=3:46.2168, slightly quicker than 3:46.32, but Aouita did have many chances to beat the mile record and while he broke 3:47, he could not touch it.

What sort of reasoning is this?

For sure Cram was the Mile WR holder by full right. But Aouita has had the 1500m mark, which probably was a little bit superiour. That's all.

Realist Guy wrote:

Olympics.

Winning the damn olympics has nothing to do with whether you're the GOAT. Is Schumann better than Kipketer? Nils who?

Time is the only impartial judge. Who has ran faster, is greater.

Not only has Choge ran faster overall than Aouita, considering Aouita only significantly beats him at 1 event, but Choge has also ran sub 7:30 four times, and Aouita only did once.

Finally as already mentioned, Choge is not a proven dope cheat like Aouita. He might be clean.

He never beat Cram and bottled facing both him and Coe in 84

5000m was just for failed middle distance runners back then

What did Lagat dominate on the track. He just ran fast times no way is he anywhere near top 3

Injury is irrelevant when it comes to greatness. It's a form of physical weakness just the same as lack of a kick or anything else.

Some of those rankings are ridiculous.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Realist Guy wrote:

Olympics.

Winning the damn olympics has nothing to do with whether you're the GOAT. Is Schumann better than Kipketer? Nils who?

Time is the only impartial judge. Who has ran faster, is greater.

Not only has Choge ran faster overall than Aouita, considering Aouita only significantly beats him at 1 event, but Choge has also ran sub 7:30 four times, and Aouita only did once.

Finally as already mentioned, Choge is not a proven dope cheat like Aouita. He might be clean.

When people put their damn ideology above any facts, it's really getting dangerous.

It seems you are just completely retarded - or how should I discribe such a behaviour?

Now you are coming again with these 4 times which Choge has bettered 7:30 (in a completely different running-era btw). Ignoring totally the 7 times which Aouita has run faster than Choge's 800m PB. Also totally ignoring Aouita's 10000m and Steeple PBs (not to mention his much superiour 1000m, Mile and, 2000m PBs). Because they just don't fit your agenda - what ever it is.

Who has the better 100m/Marathon combo?

A: 10s + 2:10:00

B: 11s + 2:09:58

For you obviously B, who is 1 second faster. You are really very, very close to Ventolin. Also your Analysis knowledge isn't that good as you might think - but at least there seems to be some coincidence to your logical skills otherwise.

When is Augustine Choge going to run the Sub 2:02 Marathon which you claimed he will?

For the normal people in this thread: Augustine Choge is a great runner with an even greater range which I highly respect.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

5000m was just for failed middle distance runners back then

Yeah, definitely. Nobody has trained for this distance in the 1980s - thanks for the info.

The selfmadecoach really also is in a league with his two friends B.W. and venty.

Is the thread I started on Augustine still around, in which I stated he is as talented as Bekele but lacks the mental tenacity as Bekele. WIth that being said to the posters saying ¿ and § could match Aouita range...could of but NO ONE HAVE almost 30 years later. WOW

GOAT mid distance range for sure. Nobody touches his 800m-5k range.

So you discount Aouita's 10000m debut (at the time top 10 all time) which earned him a #1 ranking?

not "you" in the sense of your non-drug nature.

What sort of reasoning is this? The 1500m mark was not probably a little bit superior, because few manage to equal their 1.08x conversions at mile. The conversion is a bit stingy to milers, a bit easy on 1500m runners.

Awita wrote:

GOAT mid distance range for sure. Nobody touches his 800m-5k range.

As already splained, Choge beats him soundly over both 3000 and 5000, and essentially tied at 1500. Aouita only significantly better at 800. 2-1-1 winner Choge.

Let's not forget Choge is the last man not to specialize in 1500 to have run sub 3:30 outside Monaco.

Vipam wrote:

I have checked my math skills and the times are not as important considering he ran in the early to late 80's. Almost 30 years before Haile and over 30 years to my favorite athlete Kenenisa Bekele.

Stop exaggerating. It's embarrassing. Aouita ran in '84 and '88 while Geb ran in '96 and '00 Olympics. That's 10 years not 30.