Mark Coogan states what I've always believed - College runners have it easier than pro runners

Yes, in most ways the collegiate runner has it better than the pro runner.

Facilities is a big reason.

There was a story a few years back about Manzano having difficulty finding a place to train.

The best tracks are at colleges. And you usually have to be a student there to rightfully train there.

Of course as colleges keep cutting track programs, I don't know how well tracks will be kept up.

Like Galen Rupp?

Some not all..... wrote:

Like Galen Rupp?

If you're good enough, and you earn it, and you're fast enough, then yes, you will gain access to the nice perks of training, like top-notch facilities, well-kept tracks, etc. Chris Solinsky and Evan Jager worked hard and were able to earn their spot on a team that also had access to those nice perks, so it's not just Galen. It's people who earn it and who are fast enough. I think this article is referring to people who aren't quite olympic medal material, and who really have it tough.

This is why the best and smartest pros have a personal Manager, whether it's their spouse, a friend, the agent, coach, or someone else.

rojo wrote:

They have to make their own appointments with physical therapy, massage, pay rent, cook their own food, drive to practice etc.

Don't most collegiate runners do this on their own every summer?

rojo wrote:

For all of you who hate the US NCAA system and want HSers to go pro early and what not, please read this:

http://www.runnerstribe.com/articles/elite-observations-from-new-balance-boston-coach-and-u-s-olympian-mark-coogan/

"The professional runners have to be more responsible than the college runner. They have to do a lot of the logistics on their own. They have to make their own appointments with physical therapy, massage, pay rent, cook their own food, drive to practice etc. Real life stuff! On a college team you have all this at your fingertips and it is done for you."

I would not say they have it "easier." College runners have it better.

The problem with the American system is that we "use," athletes. We do not develop athletes. After you are done with college, there are very few places to go. In addition to that you have some good high school kids who either cannot get into college or must go the JUCO route for two years before they can run DI. European and African countries do not have this problem.

There is a simple way to solve this problem. Put professional athletes in the Army and pay them the bare minimum living expenses. They could still be allowed to win prize money.

rojo wrote:

For all of you who hate the US NCAA system and want HSers to go pro early and what not, please read this:

http://www.runnerstribe.com/articles/elite-observations-from-new-balance-boston-coach-and-u-s-olympian-mark-coogan/

"The professional runners have to be more responsible than the college runner. They have to do a lot of the logistics on their own. They have to make their own appointments with physical therapy, massage, pay rent, cook their own food, drive to practice etc. Real life stuff! On a college team you have all this at your fingertips and it is done for you."

Those poor dears. I don't know how they do all of that grownup stuff and still have enough time for twitter twatter? It must be, like daunting?

I'm willing to bet that 95% of their competitors would switch lifestyles in a heartbeat.

malmo wrote:

rojo wrote:

For all of you who hate the US NCAA system and want HSers to go pro early and what not, please read this:

http://www.runnerstribe.com/articles/elite-observations-from-new-balance-boston-coach-and-u-s-olympian-mark-coogan/

"The professional runners have to be more responsible than the college runner. They have to do a lot of the logistics on their own. They have to make their own appointments with physical therapy, massage, pay rent, cook their own food, drive to practice etc. Real life stuff! On a college team you have all this at your fingertips and it is done for you."

Those poor dears. I don't know how they do all of that grownup stuff and still have enough time for twitter twatter? It must be, like daunting?

I'm willing to bet that 95% of their competitors would switch lifestyles in a heartbeat.

Agreed. Look at somone like Kawauchi: holds down a genuine full-time job, races pretty much every weekend with overseas races, multiple sub 2 10 marathons in a year, lines up even when he has injuries like sprained ankles and just hobbles around and accepts his result for his form that day. He has been doing this year in year out for several years now.

I want to hear more about runners like Kawauchi. I don't want to hear about some pampered "pro" who is not even as fast and is unable to deal with getting out of bed by themselves let alone actually work for a living.

From what I read in the 1980s there were many runners like Kawauchi and the depth in distance running was at least as good. They are the examples to aspire to IMO.

Why would anyone ever believe being a pro is easier than being an amateur?

America does a better job of developing athletes than any European country. I am an Irish athlete on scholarship in America; after graduating HS I took a year away from education to train & work part-time - basically I was semi-pro - and it was rough No real usuable facilities at all; paying on to the local track, paying for the gym, paying for physio then add in money for transport. I got no support from our national governing body despite being a national champ on HS. Kids coming out of HS and running in college have access to all of this, as I do right now, and probably much more (indoor tracks, ice baths etc). It's a much more developmental environment than any other system that I know off.

How on earth did people like Frank Shorter or Bill Rodgers get by on their own in the 70s?

(All this hand-wringing by Millenials)

Are sub-elite groups like Brooks Beasts, Nor-cal, Furman Elite, NYNJ good for sport or should these companies put their thin resources into 1-2 studs instead of "teams".

If the goal is making National teams, why have a whole group, full-time coach, etc? Abby D'agonstino is a viable national team member, why support the others and a whole group and coaching salaries?

OTC may be an even more glaring illustration!

Back in the day wrote:

Are sub-elite groups like Brooks Beasts, Nor-cal, Furman Elite, NYNJ good for sport or should these companies put their thin resources into 1-2 studs instead of "teams".

If the goal is making National teams, why have a whole group, full-time coach, etc? Abby D'agonstino is a viable national team member, why support the others and a whole group and coaching salaries?

OTC may be an even more glaring illustration!

Simple statistics - For every elite identified early there are a bunch that took time to develop. The "sure things" (which are not) will always get support, but the broader the group of sub-elites you have, the better the chance of finding someone who makes the jump up. If, as you said above, you are looking at Olympic team and National team potential qualifiers there are always a few each year that coming out of college would not have been deemed worthy of a ton of support but are willing to sacrifice for the small chance of making it.

So yes, those teams are very important to the cont. development of our sport - if anything we need more not less of them.

malmo wrote:

rojo wrote:

For all of you who hate the US NCAA system and want HSers to go pro early and what not, please read this:

http://www.runnerstribe.com/articles/elite-observations-from-new-balance-boston-coach-and-u-s-olympian-mark-coogan/

"The professional runners have to be more responsible than the college runner. They have to do a lot of the logistics on their own. They have to make their own appointments with physical therapy, massage, pay rent, cook their own food, drive to practice etc. Real life stuff! On a college team you have all this at your fingertips and it is done for you."

Those poor dears. I don't know how they do all of that grownup stuff and still have enough time for twitter twatter? It must be, like daunting?

I'm willing to bet that 95% of their competitors would switch lifestyles in a heartbeat.

I'm with Malmo 100% on this one. As someone who works ~80 hours per week and still finds time to run 80-100 miles per week, I really lose it when I hear people complain about how hard it is to be a pro runner.

Full time worker and runner wrote:

malmo wrote:

Those poor dears. I don't know how they do all of that grownup stuff and still have enough time for twitter twatter? It must be, like daunting?

I'm willing to bet that 95% of their competitors would switch lifestyles in a heartbeat.

I'm with Malmo 100% on this one. As someone who works ~80 hours per week and still finds time to run 80-100 miles per week, I really lose it when I hear people complain about how hard it is to be a pro runner.

As someone who holds down a full time (often closer to 50-60 hours) and gets in 80-100 as well, I totally get this. I also think sometimes we're hard on runners compared with about other sports. Many of our 'professionals' have to hold down some kind of outside job just to compete in the the sport they're a pro at. Football teams carry rosters of 40+. Most, if not close to everyone, does much better than any pro runner. Yes, it's a bad example because that's where the money is at but we should also be thinking of ways for pro runners to not have to have other forms of income so we don't have to hear them 'complain.'

Full time worker and runner wrote:

malmo wrote:

Those poor dears. I don't know how they do all of that grownup stuff and still have enough time for twitter twatter? It must be, like daunting?

I'm willing to bet that 95% of their competitors would switch lifestyles in a heartbeat.

I'm with Malmo 100% on this one. As someone who works ~80 hours per week and still finds time to run 80-100 miles per week, I really lose it when I hear people complain about how hard it is to be a pro runner.

I do 60mpw off a full time job and I feel terrible most days

Pro runners typically all day to recover from running sessions, that's huge

FarOutMan wrote:

How on earth did people like Frank Shorter or Bill Rodgers get by on their own in the 70s?

(All this hand-wringing by Millenials)

What is it with this incessant straw man argument? Where in this article or OP do you see millennial hand-wringing? The COACH of elite runners, who is not a millennial, compared being a professional runner to being a college runner, stating that it is more challenging in many cases because there is not as much institutional support. This statement was reasserted by ROJO, also not a millennial. Yet somehow, like everything else on the internet, rather than discuss what was asserted, the entire thread turns into people complaining about other people complaining.

Back to the point:

I think Nike took the right approach to addressing this issue. They created a few very small and selective training groups and give them a location where they have full athletic support. Then have some lesser sponsorship and elite club opportunities for those on the fringes. That way you simultaneously get the best out of your obvious top talent, like Rupp, Centro, Jager, while also leaving the door open for a diamond in the rough to make a breakthrough.

Ps and Qs n stuff wrote:

The problem with the American system is that we "use," athletes. We do not develop athletes. After you are done with college, there are very few places to go. .

What's wrong with that? Shouldn't most of them go get a job? Please tell me an example of a distance runner who contended for an an Olympic medal that didn't also contend for an NCAA title?

FightFor15 wrote:

Football teams carry rosters of 40+. Most, if not close to everyone, does much better than any pro runner '

Cause the 40th best football player on a given team has value to that team. They play a role on the team. The 40th best 1500 runner in the US really has very little value. I didn't say zero value. Sure it's fun when they make the Trials. They get a nice write up in t he local paper, all of their friends and former teammates are pumped about it as is their college coach.

how is this news. Any college student has it easier than his real world counterpart.