Road racing and training Thread. Week ending 1-8

Runrince

- still looks like a solid week to me. glad you are feeling better.

Training:

M- 10

T- 9/4.5

*W-AM (10) w/ 1600 in 5:01, 1 mile jog then Moneghetti Fartlek (hilly, 6:01 overall avg)- PM 4.5

Th- 8.5/4.5

*F- 16 progression- 6:25 overall, last 5k@5:47 (3.6@6:54, then 5k paces were 6:39, 6:27, 6:09, 5:47), pretty hilly

S- 8.5

Su- 10/4.5

90

-good week in terms of volume. quality was sort of ok. my legs were trashed after the trail climbing last Sunday, plus I got sick starting Wednesday. Not sure how much it affected my running. I wanted to get down to half marathon pace on the progression run, but to do that I think I need to take it a little easier during the first part of the run. I'm going for another week around 90 and then cut back a bit the following week

Goals: sub-1:21 at NYC HM 3/19 and sub-2:53 at Boston 4/17

Fifth week back. Things going well but came down with a nasty cold post-New Years. So I with you @runrincerepeat. Way to power through.

M - easy 5

T - off

W - 8 miles with 1x1600 in 6:30, 2X800 in 2:58, 4x400 in 1:25

T - easy 5

F - easy 5

S - easy 4

S - 13 miles starting easy and cutting down to marathon pace for final three miles

Weekly total - 40 miles

Yeah looks like the sickness is going around everywhere!

I been drinking hot toddies like crazy

Strong, strong week slo twitch. I have been fighting some kind of infection too. Not terrible, but just enough to cause me to cough up phlegm form time to time.

Good build week for me:

M - 6 easy

T - 1600 (5:04 w 4:00 rest); 1600 (5:08/4:00 - never checked splits); 1200 (3:53/3:00 - feeling the 5:04 and the 81 degree heat and 75% humidity); 1200 (3:51)

W - 13 easy

Th - 10 easy

F - 10 easy

Sa - 18 in hills

Su - 10 easy

75 total - highest total for any week since week starting 8/31/15.

Workout was going to be mile repeats, but the heat and humidity made me cut it down some after the half way mark. 5:07.8 average for intervals. Should have had active rest, but went passive. Cut me a break - I'm old.

Makes me think going out at 5:05 or so next weekend is reasonable, even if I don't end up holding it.

Another 70-75 next week, but with a tempo and a vo2max via a race.

Runrincerepeat - 60 is solid all things considered. Roll with it and move on.

runrincerepeat - Smart to take it easy with the cold. Seems like you kicked it pretty quickly.

slo-twitch - Wednesday workout looks fun.

thinkaboutit - Quick ladder workout on Wednesday.

Smoove - I'm sure those 9 meters lost of the mile repeats are going to cut into your weekly volume, haha. Nice work this week.

Glad to report that I currently don't have a cold (knock on wood)

M: 6.5 w/ 3xhilly 1.3 mi tempo w/ 1 min rest (6:10 avg).

T: 5k nordic skiing skate race. 15:20 & 10/20 men. Haven't done a nordic ski race in over 4 years so this was fun.

W: 7 w/ 400m TT 55.77

Th: 7

F: 7 w/ 10x300 w/ 1 min jog (53 sec avg)

S: off

Su: 7 w/ 2x40" hill sprints

Total - 34.5

Meant to do 3x1.5 mi but I can't use google maps properly apparently. I came through the first one in ~8:00 and thought I was running tempo effort at 5:20 pace for half a second before a more reasonable part of my brain kicked in and figured that my loop was short.

Very nice volume and workouts slo esp fighting a cold!

Smoove : very impressive week.. the colds have been getting everyone this week.

I am rolling with it I just wanted four 80+ mile weeks in jan to roll into 7 weeks of more anaerobic work and a one week peak or taper.

Nice workouts pewow. Are you running indoor?

Thinkaboutit wrote:

Goals: sub-1:21 at NYC HM 3/19 and sub-2:53 at Boston 4/17

Fifth week back. Things going well but came down with a nasty cold post-New Years. So I with you @runrincerepeat. Way to power through.

M - easy 5

T - off

W - 8 miles with 1x1600 in 6:30, 2X800 in 2:58, 4x400 in 1:25

T - easy 5

F - easy 5

S - easy 4

S - 13 miles starting easy and cutting down to marathon pace for final three miles

Weekly total - 40 miles

Think: we have similar goals. I want to run a 1:18ish half april1.. what are the shortest repeats you will do in your buildup? I'm just doing mileage and 1-2 quality days of tempo,progression,type stuff and strides until 8 weeks out. The shortest I may go is 1k repeats

Runrincereapeat- Solid week despite the head cold. My next race will likely be a leg in our fresh-soph 4 x 800m at our first indoor meet, which isn't until late February/early March. My coach will probably start putting me in the 3200m or 1600m a few weeks after that.

M: 8 x 230m hills w/ 3:00 rest. 2 w/u and c/d. Weights

T: 7

W: 7

Th: 6

F: 3.4. Our team captain had us do a shorter run for some reason since it was so cold outside.

Sat: 12

Sun: 7

Total: 49

Solid week Illinois. The relay should be fun..do you prefer the mile or two mile?

I decided to run 8k race first of feb and a 10k first of march as tuneups

Goal race: March 4 50-miler

M - 10 miles

T - 8, inc. 4 tempo at 6:00 pace (6:16, 6:01, 5:59, 5:44), HR peaked at HRM minus 15

W - 8

T - 13 inc. 4 trail hard effort, basically 40 min tempo on trails

F - 6

S - 22 trail

S - 13 road with progression (downhill)

Week total: 81 miles, 8600' vert

Huge PR week in terms of distance with my old one being 65. I'm feeling strong, actually even stronger with the fatigue in the legs. On Sunday when I thought I would be struggling from the big week I was happily bombing down the mountain. The Tuesday workout was the first flat workout in awhile and it felt pretty easy. Again, it's nice to see 6-flats on the watch and not be dying from the effort. Thursday's effort was also a 2-minute PR on a long hill climb on a trail I can run from the house. All in all, feeling pretty good about the 50-miler but having a tough time getting buy-in from home about doing a 50K in the interim.

Smoove wrote:

T - 1600 (5:04 w 4:00 rest); 1600 (5:08/4:00 - never checked splits); 1200 (3:53/3:00 - feeling the 5:04 and the 81 degree heat and 75% humidity); 1200 (3:51)

Workout was going to be mile repeats, but the heat and humidity made me cut it down some after the half way mark. 5:07.8 average for intervals. Should have had active rest, but went passive. Cut me a break - I'm old.

Makes me think going out at 5:05 or so next weekend is reasonable, even if I don't end up holding it.

Another 70-75 next week, but with a tempo and a vo2max via a race.

Runrincerepeat - 60 is solid all things considered. Roll with it and move on.

Depending on the course and conditions, I think you could go 15:50 or maybe under

I'll try and comment later but some good looking workouts. Thankfully, I am not sick this week.

M- 4 easy

T - am 3, pm 8

W- am 3, pm 9 w/ 6x1k (3;37 avg), 500 jog

T - am 3, pm 6.5

F - am 3, pm 10 w/ 5 tempo (6:05 avg)

S - am 4, pm 6.5

S - 14.5 hilly trail (~2k climbing)

Total 74.5

Pretty solid week for the most part. Took it a little easy on the 1k reps Wednesday as my legs were still feeling that Grand Canyon trip to the river on Sunday. Friday's tempo went pretty smooth and relaxed. Had planned on an easy 20 miler Sunday but got an invite to run some trails with friends so decided to go that route instead. Wasn't quite as long as I wanted but there was some solid climbing efforts and I have a 20 miler I'm running this coming Sunday.

Speaking of that, it's part of a marathon I signed up for last year. I'm planning on running the first 20 and then dropping, no benefit to finishing this one. What's everyone's thoughts on how to approach it? I was thinking of 15-16 easy and then the last few at GMP.

Yeah, I have 15:50 kind of set in my mind as my goal time. I think I am generally fit enough for that, and the temps will be pretty good (mid 60s or so per the current forecast). The challenges will be that winds are forecasted to be 15+ mph and I typically end up in no man's land in my local races. Some years, 15:50 is a 5th to 10th place finish in the local races, this year it might be a second place finish.(and the first place finisher is going to go out in 4:35 or so). Course is flat, but with a fair amount of brick and a fair number of turns, so a fair course, but not blazing. It will basically likely turn into a solo time trial going out into the wind and finishing with the wind.

slo-twitch wrote:

Smoove wrote:

T - 1600 (5:04 w 4:00 rest); 1600 (5:08/4:00 - never checked splits); 1200 (3:53/3:00 - feeling the 5:04 and the 81 degree heat and 75% humidity); 1200 (3:51)

Workout was going to be mile repeats, but the heat and humidity made me cut it down some after the half way mark. 5:07.8 average for intervals. Should have had active rest, but went passive. Cut me a break - I'm old.

Makes me think going out at 5:05 or so next weekend is reasonable, even if I don't end up holding it.

Another 70-75 next week, but with a tempo and a vo2max via a race.

Runrincerepeat - 60 is solid all things considered. Roll with it and move on.

Depending on the course and conditions, I think you could go 15:50 or maybe under

Runrincerepeat wrote:

Thinkaboutit wrote:

Goals: sub-1:21 at NYC HM 3/19 and sub-2:53 at Boston 4/17

Fifth week back. Things going well but came down with a nasty cold post-New Years. So I with you @runrincerepeat. Way to power through.

M - easy 5

T - off

W - 8 miles with 1x1600 in 6:30, 2X800 in 2:58, 4x400 in 1:25

T - easy 5

F - easy 5

S - easy 4

S - 13 miles starting easy and cutting down to marathon pace for final three miles

Weekly total - 40 miles

Think: we have similar goals. I want to run a 1:18ish half april1.. what are the shortest repeats you will do in your buildup? I'm just doing mileage and 1-2 quality days of tempo,progression,type stuff and strides until 8 weeks out. The shortest I may go is 1k repeats

I mix it up. When I'm in my higher mileage phases (50-60 mpw - hopefully up to 70 this cycle) my typical week has two workouts, a long run, and four recovery runs, one of which is a mid-week 10-12 miles. For those two workouts, I usually do one tempo, say 4-5 miles at HM pace or 4x1 mile at 10k pace with rest, and one speed endurance workout, usually a mix of 800s or 1200s (and even 400s) at ~5k pace.

I think it depends where you are in your training. Your mileage is good so it doesn't seem like a 20 miler is a major event for you. I love long runs as progression runs but also think there's a ton of value in long, steady (even easy) running. I'd base it off how your week has gone. If you feel fresh and relaxed, go for a hard run. If you're trashed from a tough week, take it easy.

20 is a drop in the bucket in terms of distance for me. Came off a half a month ago, last 4 weeks have just been getting ready to start a build into Boston. Overall mileage is still a little low from where I normally would be but I'm gradually picking it back up after a late summer injury. Some type of solid progression may be better considering where this falls. Guess I'll just see how Sunday morning feels and run what's available.

If I could get people to change one thing about their interval training, it would be to convince them to rarely do any 5k paced intervals of less than 3:00 in duration. This would essentially cut 400m and 800m intervals at 5k pace out of most routines. There are a couple of exceptions to this - when you are just getting back into some intervals after a lay off or when the hay is already in the barn and you just want to do some work to lock in some muscle memory of what 5k pace feels like without taxing yourself too much. Same thing with 400s.

Working Harder - this might be a good time for you to try some of the things that Daniels advocates for some of his mixed tempo and long run efforts. Below are a couple of those runs that I will be doing for Boston - but they are still a few weeks off. Not sure how comfortable these would be for someone who has not been doing a ton of tempo work (I am still building up to them - that is why they are a few weeks off yet). Still, food for thought:

2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile w/:60-:80 rest; 8 mi easy; 20 min tempo; 2-3 down.

2 mile warm up; 2 x 2 mi tempo w/2:00 rest; 10 mi easy; 3 mi tempo; 1-2 mi easy

Both are pretty tough workouts, but they really help you get to the mental place that you need to be able to find at around the 20 mile mark of the marathon.

Smoove wrote:

If I could get people to change one thing about their interval training, it would be to convince them to rarely do any 5k paced intervals of less than 3:00 in duration. This would essentially cut 400m and 800m intervals at 5k pace out of most routines. There are a couple of exceptions to this - when you are just getting back into some intervals after a lay off or when the hay is already in the barn and you just want to do some work to lock in some muscle memory of what 5k pace feels like without taxing yourself too much. Same thing with 400s.

Can you expand on this? Why do you not feel like these are valuable workouts?

My reasoning, which is really Daniels' reasoning, is that you simply do not get your heart rate up to the desired zone for long enough with these shorter intervals. The primary goal of most 5k paced intervals is to improve vo2max. To do that, you need to be training at or close to your max heart rate. According to the studies that Daniels has performed, it takes most trained athletes at least 2 minutes to get up to your max heart rate. As a result, if you are doing 400m intervals, you may not get up to your max heart rate at all. Now you will note that I say "may not." I say this because if you keep the rest really short and make it active rest (jogging), your heart rate will stay elevated between intervals and, after enough intervals, you may be able to get up to your max heart rate at some point in the workout. Same thing is true with 800s.

Let's take a 15:30 5k runner as an example. Let's look at 3 different workouts (and for simplicity's sake, I will assume 5k pace is 5:00 pace):

6 x 800 at 5k pace with 2:00 rest. This is a staple workout that you see folks posting all of the time. Now let's assume that Daniels is right and it takes 2:00 to get up to your max heart rate. At 2:30 per 800, you get 6 periods of 30 seconds each at your max heart rate, tops. Total time at max heart rate: 3:00.

4 x 1200 at 5k pace with 3:00 rest. Another staple workout, with the same total volume of work at 5k pace. In this case though, the athlete will spend 1:45 per interval at their max heart rate, for a total of 7:00 at their max heart rate.

More than twice the time at your max heart rate over the course of the same 4800m at 5k pace by doing 4 1200s instead of 6 800s.

3 x 1600 with 4:00 rest. Total time at max heart rate: 9:00.

Again, you can try to trim some of this deficit when doing 800s by keeping your heart rate up by way of keeping the rest short (cut it down to 1:00 maybe) and by keeping the pace decent on your recovery (7:00 easy distance pace instead of 8:00 jogging pace), but then that becomes a much more intense and higher stress workout.

I am not totally crapping on 400s or 800s at 5k pace. They have their place in the workout cycle. I just think their place is very limited and that they are more suitable for getting you back into things or getting you some work at race pace than they are at actually improving your fitness.