Can I save my marriage?

CatlitterHotub wrote:

Just think how it will be when some other dude moves in and is boning her and raising your kids, and then taking a nice vacation with your child support check.

Man.. you reall f***ed up.

Not to mention having to alternate every other holiday, birthdays, summer vacation.. Man you have two kids. So even if you split and you both re-marry you will be seeing this person THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!

You'll see her every holiday, every funeral, every wedding. So you may be done with her, but you really are not. Also you will be taking care of the kids while she uses that weekend to go off with her new boyfriend. You are her free babysitting service.

quickndirty wrote:

CatlitterHotub wrote:

Just think how it will be when some other dude moves in and is boning her and raising your kids, and then taking a nice vacation with your child support check.

Man.. you reall f***ed up.

Not to mention having to alternate every other holiday, birthdays, summer vacation.. Man you have two kids. So even if you split and you both re-marry you will be seeing this person THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!

You'll see her every holiday, every funeral, every wedding. So you may be done with her, but you really are not. Also you will be taking care of the kids while she uses that weekend to go off with her new boyfriend. You are her free babysitting service.

I'm sure you're trolling, but yeah that would suck.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

On the ropes wrote:I've mentioned counseling and she'd probably do it but I'd have to do all the leg work and I'm not sure I want the burden.

You are perfectly happy to complain about the imminent demise of your marriage then won't do a little work? Really?

Get a divorce. You are too lazy to work it out.

Not true. But what's the point of leading a horse to water if it won't drink?

Sleep in separate rooms and f#ck other people on the side. You will be much happier.

I think the hardest thing to do in life in any situation or conflict is to go first, and I mean first, to the inquiry or possibility which makes you the most uncomfortable and examine it. Now, in most cases that means looking coldly at how each of us may be culpable or may be at fault, or at least capable of finding a way within our control to make the situation better, even if the counterparty is not necessarily deserving. This doesn't mean that you simply accept the uncomfortable conclusion - you can't be a doormat and there are times when you have to draw lines and stick to them (on important issues), but it does mean that you have to at least examine the most uncomfortable possibility. This applies all the more to raising children. My marriage got better when I woke up everyday and say, look, I may well be responsible for some of this, and I can change it, even if it doesn't seem to immediately make me happy, and even if sometimes I was just dealing with needless insecurity from my wife or something of the sort. The hard part about doing this is that you will not receive (often) fairly immediate gratification. But over time, my wife, a very intelligent person with a fascinating set of baggage (offspring of Holocaust survivors), gets that being with a stand up guy who at least considers personal accountability in every situation is better than the alternatives out there. Don't take this as a brag - I am still not all that great at going to the most uncomfortable possibilities - but like anything else, hard work makes one better at it. And humility is easy to talk about, but really hard to do, and there are days when I earn a grade of "D" at it. But better than a "F" - and you pick up and do better the next day.

crzbt wrote:

Sleep in separate rooms and f#ck other people on the side. You will be much happier.

This is really the best thing to do. It'll be better for your kids, cheaper for you and it will allow the two of you to date, and not just shack up with the first person you meet that's as desperate as you two are and/or weed out any grifters that might come your way.

It also keeps the lawyers and courts out of the picture, that's usually a good thing.

Great advice. I wish you had told me that when I was younger.

Love this: "~ with a fascinating set of baggage."

Thanks, seriousmatters, I appreciate the advice. I agree the humility can be hard.

truckdriver wrote:

Married for 33 years now w/2 grown offspring.

Congrats on 32 years and grown kids!

On the ropes wrote:

Yes, we've had numerous conversations about our relationship and I think we've both been honest about our feelings. Communication can be hard because she's a very emotional person and loses control quickly and can lash out in front of the kids, which I've explained is not acceptable. I'm very open and blunt about my feelings - maybe lacking a soft touch sometimes - but she can be stubborn and shut me out. So we have communication problems.

These are the things you need to discuss and work on together.

On the ropes wrote:

the future worries me even more because I don't think she can prioritize our relationship over some other influences in her life that I explained earlier. It might be a fault but I am prideful and cannot live in a relationship where I feel like I'm being emotionally dominated by my spouse. Eventually I'll stop trying and give up on her. If that happens the question is whether I can stay in that marriage just for the kids.

Letting her emotions run away makes her weak, not dominant. Granted, this is something that both of you need to work on.

Staying together for the kids. I never knew what that meant until I considered divorce very seriously. I thought it meant just so they don't have to go through the divorce, or so I can continue seeing them as much as possible,(which really matters to me too).

But it really means staying together because it's the best way to take care of them. That's what it should mean. If it can't possibly mean that , because of drugs or alcohol or financial sabotage or violence, leave. But If it's just sadness or whatever stay and fix that too, at least for yourself if not making a "happy marriage".

I started to see how related the quality of care they get is to my wife and I helping each other. It's huge. There is no way that divided ,we could nurture these kids, even as teenagers, to the level of quality we apparently have sustained thus far….and the divorce itself would really hurt them.

So really, I have to make my life happier with my wife unless she gets really out of hand and I think she sees it the same way even though we both know it's for the kids. Once you know you want to be there,you'll find ways to live more happy than sad. Maybe succeeding at that will lay the foundation for the relationship to improve and go on strong even after the kids are gone. If not, at least the kids got what they are owed, the highest level of care.

If you went by our FB profiles, my marriage looked storybook perfect. We went on nice vacations, were both successful, were both the golden kids in our families, I surprised her with big romantic gestures on special occasions, and we didn't even have kids yet. In reality, however, a couple of years ago my marriage was already going downhill fast, to the point where divorce might be a realistic end for her.

I'm happy to say it's night and day today. We now have a 3 y.o. and 1 y.o. and it's the hardest, most stressful and trying time our lives, but we're closer than we've ever been and love and appreciate each other more than we ever have.

The biggest difference? It all started with me!! Some good friends made me realize that I was doing an awful job as a husband, leading my home and my wife in all the wrong ways, and barely meeting the minimum standard of paying bills and staying under the same roof. I was falling way short of loving my wife the way I should, of treasuring and appreciating her, of listening to her and not criticizing, of protecting and respecting her. When I began to change, so did everything else! It's still something I have to work hard at every single day and still fail often, but it's made my marriage more amazing than I could have ever hoped for.

So here are a few pieces of advice:

1. --Be the change you want to see in the world--

Ghandi said "We but mirror the world... If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do." Ask your wife "What's one thing you wish you could change about me?" Then go and try to change it, every day, like your life depends on it. If she asks you the same thing, tell her not to worry about it, tell her you just want to be better for her. If you truly change she'll want to follow, by example, not by words. Rinse and repeat.

2. --Love your wife the way SHE wants to be loved, not the way you want to be loved--

This is one of the easiest things to get wrong. You may be spending a lot of effort doing many big things you think are loving for her and getting frustrated when she doesn't notice, but she may be despising you for not doing any of the little things she asks for. For just one week, try really listening to her, ask her questions like "What's one thing I can do to help you the most today", "What have you been frustrated or stressed about lately", or "What have I done to hurt you lately". Then just listen and ask follow-up questions. Don't argue any of it, that's not the point! Just listen and do what matters to her. If she asks for something, do it like it's the highest priority in your life. Do little things for her that she feels she always has to do, maybe like load and unload dishwasher, wash clothes, cook, etc. Don't do it as show, just do it and go about your business, trust me, she'll notice it. Compliment her!! But go beyond the general "you're beautiful". Compliment her smarts, her drive, her passion, her style, how you have great kids because of her, etc. Bottom line, does she think you put her first in your life like she's supposed to be? Is she even 10th in line by this point?

3. --Admit when you're wrong--

If I really look back on most arguments I've had with my wife, I was the one in the wrong, but I fought until I backed her down and she gave up. Once I learned to admit when I was wrong and apologize before anything else, our communication got way better and the fights decreased way more. Plus she started apologizing herself when she was wrong, voluntarily! Humility is one of the most powerful, yet most unused traits you can think of.

Ask yourself how well you've done with this definition of love:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Lastly, I have an email address which I use for junk, so I don't care if I post it online. If you want to talk more, send me a message at

nonames13@gmail.com

in the next week and I'll check it regularly.

Good luck and remember, you loved her enough at one point to want to spend the rest of your life with her, that's worth something.

Similar situation, but with one kid which I adore. My wife and I didn't necessarily fight constantly, but we would constantly be frustrated by each other. We had been together since college and divorced when we were in our early 30s. We started out really close and on the same wavelength, but as we grew up differences in who we are and what we wanted out of life/each other started to emerge. We tried to reconcile it for a couple years but finally realized that everyone would be happier pursuing fulfillment separately. But we parted amicably and are still supportive of each other, especially since we both parent our daughter half the time (joint custody). We even give each other relationship advice now, since we know each other better than most people know us.

Advice - figure out a way for both of you to let your defenses down and have a thorough conversation about whether or not you both would be happier together or apart. If you are not happy together, it won't be the best thing for your kids, who would benefit from seeing a healthy, loving relationship as a model, rather than an unhealthy one. This separate life will have its own set of challenges, but you'll be surprised at how resilient you find yourself and your kids to be, especially if they have two loving parents supporting them.

The crux of the matter wrote:

On the ropes wrote:

Yes, we've had numerous conversations about our relationship and I think we've both been honest about our feelings. Communication can be hard because she's a very emotional person and loses control quickly and can lash out in front of the kids, which I've explained is not acceptable. I'm very open and blunt about my feelings - maybe lacking a soft touch sometimes - but she can be stubborn and shut me out. So we have communication problems.

These are the things you need to discuss and work on together.

Yes, you are probably right

Truckdriver - Holocaust survivors and their offspring are typically very fearful. The world is a much scarier place to them than to someone like me - raised in with freedom and limited oversight in the Midwest (in poverty, but without much fear). I could not understand it for years because she went to the nation's best schools and led a relatively privileged life, but that didn't matter - her fears were real - after all - her parents had no relatives - and had everything taken away when they were young children - everything. So unless I learned to be the stronger partner in dealing with my wife's fears - as sometimes irrational as they appeared - the relationship wasn't going to be fixed. Was I more capable of dealing with fear and insecurity than her? Sure, and for good reasons (top level NCAA running on scholarship was a bit of a plus, because it hauled me out of single mother poverty and abuse and gave me confidence). So rather than complain, I had to contribute to fixing the problem, and when I didn't do that, yes, I was at fault, because in those instances I could have made it better but did not do so. And the flip side of the coin is that she comes from an intact nuclear family, and has a much better sense of how to obtain stability in a family. So again, I had to learn to listen and learn on that score - likely a lack of maturity, lack of guidance, and a lack of humility were all standing in the way.

A matter of perception wrote:

Letting her emotions run away makes her weak, not dominant.

Interesting point, thanks

Thanks 2c. Some good advice. But I have to ask - was your effort reciprocated?

Thanks King. Sorry to hear about your divorce but glad you stayed friendly and kids are fine. I too wonder if we both want different things for our future.