Free my boy Mo Hussein
Free my boy Mo Hussein
MAGA! FREE AMHERST XC!
In fact I've got a few youngsters gittin riddy to apply to colleges. Which I really struggled 'th in my day. I read all the fancy examples of successful essays but couldn't muster one up myself. I see some thoughtful expository in this thread that might generate some ideas for my youngans. Thanks letsrun. Where their dreams can become reality.
not the same dan crowley.
http://www.gazettenet.com/Gaze...or-3917322Amwerst wrote:
Great article by... Dan Crowley?
http://www.gazettenet.com/Amherst-College-hires-former-lawyer-former-judge-to-investigate-men-s-cross-country-team-6868151https://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/4054860/Amherst/Dan_Crowley.html
not the same dan crowley.
DiscoGary wrote:
I wonder what is going to happen when the intellectual class who sits in judgement of these young men are presented with the nasty things they've said about Trump supporters, conservatives, Tea Partiers, uneducated white men, Southern Christians?
Will they suspend themselves?
I suspect they'll assert truth as a defense.
The larger, inarguable point isn't that some letsrun posters will have daughters, but that somebody's daughter is already president of Harvard, and someone else's daughter is president of Amherst. And whatever you think of her, someone's daughter came pretty close to being elected president of the USA. Seriously, get used to it. Power structures have changed. What might have been laughed off a generation ago, now has real consequences. From the article:
"The men’s cross country season ended Nov. 19 at the NCAA Division III Championship, but every cross country team member except one also competes for the college’s indoor track and field team, according to college spokeswoman Caroline Hanna.
"They will be suspended from those track activities, including competition and practice, while an investigation and independent legal counsel is carried out, Hanna said."
What a stupid, pointless witch hunt.
Anyone angry at the Amherst XC team needs to examine their selves before criticizing them. I have never met a man who didn't participate in this kind of banter, I know many girls who say stuff like this to me about men. I can only imagine the kinds of things they say when men aren't around. Men talk about women -- often in an offensive way. It's a fact of life. If you haven't realized this by now, I don't know what to tell you. Either the people shaming them are better than anyone I've ever met, or they're simply a bunch of self-righteous pricks. I can only guess at which it is.
You can't just take the things these men said in what was supposed to be a private setting out of context and then assume them to be bad people, solely because of a few bad jokes in a chain of what was probably hundreds of emails.
Additionally, can we talk about the teammate who released this stuff? From my understanding he was on the team for two years, quit amicably, and then stayed friends with most of the team. What kind of douchebag betrays his friends and teammates like this? This is absolutely disgraceful. If he truly wanted to cause change, why didn't he send the emails to the administration instead of releasing them to the public? The answer seems obvious -- he wanted the praise of exposing a bunch of "misogynists". Publicly releasing them offered no benefit, and he offended all the people the email talked about, and f*cked over everyone on the team, whether they participated or not.
If you disagree with anything I've said, I'd be happy to explain why you're wrong.
You are a perfect example of why this type of behavior is not tolerated. It is NOT acceptable normal behavior even though you apparently think otherwise. My expectation is that any teammate with strong moral sensibilities would attempt to shut this type of behavior down either by going to the source and expressing disapproval or taking it to the coach. Unfortunately you have a warped sense of normality because of your prior exposure and have been desensitized to believe there's nothing wrong with writing and distributing offensive slanderous material. I sincerely hope you do not work with children or teens, as you clearly sanction this behavior and put them (and the integrity of your team) at risk.
Lol good one. 0/10
Well, let's begin then, shall we?
Let's take for granted that every man participates in this kind of banter and that many women do as well. I think you'll still agree that as far as team culture goes, this language is much more common among men's teams than women's teams. There have been posts previously about why words matter, in particular men's words objectifying women, so I won't get into that here unless you want me to. That said, I hope you will also agree that accepting offensive talk about women just because it has happened in the past isn't a good argument.
I agree with your premise that this type of team culture is more prevalent than people are admitting. I also agree that many people calling Amherst out are far from blameless. My hope is that people who are condemning this behavior are also taking a good long look in the mirror and trying to correct their team's culture. The easiest thing to do is to call them terrible while doing the exact same thing on your email chains. The next easiest thing is to say "I've done what they've done, so it can't be wrong." I encourage you to consider the possibility that talking like this has a real negative impact, that you have probably done something like this in the past, and that you should try not to do so in the future.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I don't think any of the Amherst runners are bad people, and I think the people painting them in that light do a disservice to this conversation. The reality is, like you say, there are lots of teams out there like the Amherst team, all filled with good people.
But that doesn't change the fact that using this language to talk about women is bad. Good people make bad decisions all the time, and what makes them good people is that they're willing to work to correct those bad decisions--look no further than the apology Amherst published, which I thought was very nicely written.
I don't have the knowledge that you have about the situation, and that does seem a bit bizarre. That said, this has contributed to a national conversation about team culture and how we as men speak about women. You and I would probably not be posting on a message board if he had handled this internally, and I think it is good to be having this conversation. Perhaps the person who leaked these emails wanted to spark a national dialogue or perhaps he was just a petty jerk, as you say. The point is moot.
I do acknowledge that the Amherst team is going to suffer for something that many teams could have gotten in trouble for, and I do sympathize with the guys there. The punishment will almost certainly be more severe than what I think is appropriate, but it's too soon to say that for sure. Regardless, hopefully their misfortune will lead to positive changes in team culture across the nation and a productive dialogue. Cheers.
It is an unrealistic, utopian dream to think that you can shut down the culture of sexism. You believe that it is possible, and the poster you are criticizing does not believe it is possible. At the end of the day, the core disagreement (after peeling back many layers) is whether or not it is worth the trouble to fight what could be a pyrrhic battle.
And, by the way, taking extreme positions does not help your cause. It is not fair to label the poster as being unfit to "work with children or teens" merely because he articulated a reasonable position. This extremism works both ways - it wouldn't be fair for me to label you a radical feminist who wants to eradicate men from earth merely because you are (justifiably) shocked at the behavior of the team in this case. Trump won because half of the country equates even the smallest racist thought with being a KKK member, or having the smallest sexist thought with being a serial rapist, and people are tired of being labeled as evil or unintelligent for not affiliating with a certain political party.
If you were to take the nicest person in the world and read their thoughts, you would be shocked by what you would find out about them. The only difference in this case is that some of those thoughts made their way into an email chain.
Trump talks that way so obviously it's not a big deal.
Psycho-logist wrote:
It is not fair to label the poster as being unfit to "work with children or teens" merely because he articulated a reasonable position.
Of course it is. His 'reasonable position' is one that works for old men at bars, not educating/growing our youth.
Assuming he means "working with children or teens" as being an educator or coach. The entire idea behind behind a 'mentor' is an adult who advises and guides a child. If you let something like this slide, or don't make a big deal out of it, the kids won't learn from it. If you make excuse ("it's a fact of life") after excuse ("girls talk that way too") after excuse ("out of context") after EXCUSE ("they wouldn't have said it if they weren't in private") for them, then they don't learn from that experience and you've completely failed as a mentor. It's REALLY simple.
College students are not kids though. They are legally adults. Boom! Point, set, match. (This is the part where you admit you are wrong and then proceed to blow me as reconciliation)
Not sure if you were paying attention but a woman herself said that it happens and that it's not that big of a deal. Women do the same thing as well. If she isn't bothered by it then why are you? It seems like you're a bit deluded and mentally disturbed.
The real lesson here is to think before you post on any social media or text. You may think you are just joking around, but all it takes is someone taking a screen shot and posting it to the world to ruin you. Sure you may say it was just in jest, it was taken out of context, or that it is just locker room talk. It won't matter. Once it becomes public, you will get no sympathy as everyone is an expert behind a computer and will express their outrage. It forces institutions to take swift action or face similar public outrage towards them.
You'd think kids these days would know better since they grew up with this technology, but apparently not.
Few tips for you young kids out there:
- Make your social profiles private
- Don't post pictures of you doing drugs or drinking underage.
- Don't make a social media invite to a college party - Your officers on campus find that and hit up the low hanging fruit.
- Don't take nude photos and send them to people unless you are okay with everyone seeing them.
- Don't write racist, sexist, bigot, etc comments on social media/text/email. It is traceable and even if you were 'just joking around' you will be dragged through the mud. Look up when Curt Schilling went after posters that were making lewd degrading comments about his daughter. I believe a few were kicked of teams, fired, and/or kicked out of school. Imagine explaining this to HR as your looking for your first job.
- Don't make a youtube video of you committing a crime.
- Remember that when you are applying for a job, HR will do a search on you. They will try to look at your social media accounts and what they find and/or see will be their first impression. Remember that next time you are choosing your new profile picture. Crazy drunk doing something stupid pic or nice standard photo of you smiling?
- Lastly, don't publicize you are trying to qualify for the Olympic marathon trials and attempt a treadmill marathon record. It won't end well.
You don't get it wrote:
Not sure if you were paying attention but a woman herself said that it happens and that it's not that big of a deal. Women do the same thing as well. If she isn't bothered by it then why are you?
Right... One woman says 'no big deal' and that means every woman and person should be OK with it. What type of accident did you get in to lose all of you reasoning skills?
You don't get it wrote:
It seems like you're a bit deluded and mentally disturbed
If 'deluded and mentally disturbed' means that I think coaches and institutions should hold their student-athletes accountable for inappropriate and damaging actions, then yes, you are correct.
Once again, it's REALLY simple.
False but nice try wrote:
College students are not kids though. They are legally adults. Boom! Point, set, match. (This is the part where you admit you are wrong and then proceed to blow me as reconciliation)
That changes nothing. They are students at an institution and athletes on a team. I commend the administrators for making this decision. I guarantee that everyone involved will think twice before they make comments like this again. It's called 'learning a lesson'.