Amherst Cross Country Team Suspended Following Email Chain

Dean Wormer should put the team on double secret probation.

This is hilarious haha. Another case of curbing political correctness. What a joke. People are too sensitive these days and will find any reason to be angry about something. How is this newsworthy? Comical yes but newsworthy? Talk about getting blown out of proportion.

4th paragraph of article uses the word "transphobic" so yeah I would guess the writers are liberals on a righteous crusade to ride the world of free speech and humor.

According to the article, a team captain immediately criticized the original offensive email and explained that it was meant as a joke but it obviously went too far, and crossed the line into being offensive. Furthermore, "The team member who had sent out the list wrote an apology in response to the criticism."

So it seems people were telling jokes that went a little too far, they apologized, but that is not good enough for the liberals who feel all humor must be sacrificed on the alter of social justice.

Any indication wrote:

H.S. Coach #6543 wrote:

A very good editorial from the campus newspaper too:

https://theindicator.wordpress.amherst.edu/special-reports/editorial-after-mens-xc-email-examine-all-athlete-spaces

The Indicator is actually the college's literary magazine, not its newspaper. This distinction may sound trivial, but the reality is that it's just another example of the modern decay of subjective sensationalism taking the place of objective journalism.

And journalistic crap taking the place of literature...

celery wrote:

4th paragraph of article uses the word "transphobic" so yeah I would guess the writers are liberals on a righteous crusade to ride the world of free speech and humor.

According to the article, a team captain immediately criticized the original offensive email and explained that it was meant as a joke but it obviously went too far, and crossed the line into being offensive. Furthermore, "The team member who had sent out the list wrote an apology in response to the criticism."

So it seems people were telling jokes that went a little too far, they apologized, but that is not good enough for the liberals who feel all humor must be sacrificed on the alter of social justice.

It does seem relevant that the email chain began in June 2013 and ended in August 2015 -- so the team was evidently able to censure itself to that degree. It wasn't a more or less ongoing thing like the Harvard spreadsheet debacle.

Perhaps "literally" every team does this. Certainly "most" people know better than to act this way.

But there's a problem with athlete culture and sexual assault (source:

http://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440%2813%2900059-5/abstract

)

By all means there is a difference between words and actions. But presumably, team culture like this influences actions that contribute to the statistics linked above. For anecdotal evidence, look no further than the email making light of a teammates alleged sexual assault in the original article.

Does it suck for Amherst XC that of all the teams with toxic cultures, they're the team getting in trouble? Absolutely. But this is a problem, and punishing a team for normalizing this culture seems quite reasonable.

Which were the 'pretty fvcked up' quotes in the article? Most of the quotes were crude (and bad) attempts at jokes that were really obviously attempts at 'cross the line twice' types of humor (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrossesTheLineTwice). None would be out of place in a South Park episode.

The two you quote are actually funny critiques of far left insanity.

Honestly, while the two you mention were the only ones that wouldn't make me uncomfortable, I'm probably more prudish (and chaste) than literally anyone who attends or teaches at that University, and the only ones that truly have provoked some level of disgust in me were the ones talking about 'meat slabs', and those could have just as easily been a long running inside joke. Would I enjoy being friends with the group these quotes came from? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they should be punished for it.

Hell, the quote about the runner who “won’t acknowledge anyone on the girls team as a human being" IS A (joking) CRITIQUE for someone who the author (of the quote) most certainly doesn't think treats women well enough, and it's being treated as if it was affirming the position it is critiquing.

Either the actually damning quotes are too personal to publish or stuff like this means we are taking the first steps into a 1984 style dystopia (where thought-crime is a thing). Our level of surveillance will only increase; if we let thought-crime become truly punishable, we're doomed to tyranny, plain and simple.

DiscoGary wrote:

I wonder what is going to happen when the intellectual class who sits in judgement of these young men are presented with the nasty things they've said about Trump supporters, conservatives, Tea Partiers, uneducated white men, Southern Christians?

Will they suspend themselves?

Always the victim, aren't you?

Skips Arm Day wrote:

That kind of culture is how you end up with the Brock Turners of the world. When you talk a certain way for long enough, you tend to start to think that way, and when you think that way long enough you start to act that way.

To be clear, you're implying a causal relationship between the content of those emails, and dragging a blacked out girl behind a dumpster and raping her semi-conscious body. Is that about right?

I would agree with the "thought police" comment if the administration read their emails unprompted. Instead, it seems like it was reported by a member of the team who was put off by their vulgarity.

From the original article:

"The 2015 list drew immediate criticism from a team member, who has since transferred from Amherst, largely on account of the toxic athletic culture he experienced on the men’s cross-country team."

Combine that with an athlete on the team getting in trouble for alleged sexual harassment, and the administration is policing a culture that led to some specific outcomes, not thoughts.

These kids deserve some Savino Salads

Someone got sand in their vag wrote:

Literally every team does this and if you believe otherwise than you are a fool. These guys just weren't smart about it. It's not supposed to be taken seriously because most people know better than to act that way in real life. Lighten up and take a chill pill buddy.

Yeah I know I sound uptight and all, but that kind of thing was not ok on my team. And just because it happens all the time doesn't mean it's ok.

Trust me I love a good dirty joke and enjoyed BSing with my teammates, but sometimes people take it too far. So far that you start to wonder if they're half joking/half serious. From the things I read in the reports about this incident those guys definitely crossed that line. Talking about women like sex objects is messed up in general, but you really cross the line when it gets personal and you start talking about specific people you know in crude sexual terms behind their back. It just takes on creepy predatory vibes. Even worse when you deliberately try to make that part of the team culture like in this case.

Alternate Reality wrote:

A'suh Dude wrote:

Bud, not to be pedantic, but you asked "Is there actual misogyny in there or is this a case of liberals not knowing what the definitions of words are yet again?" I'm assuming that you are not a liberal then. Google 'inductive reasoning'. Also, google 'misogyny,' then take a look at the comments made by Amherst. Do your homework before spouting your political beliefs.

FYI, they were misogynist.

Most of them actually weren't.

Making comments about a woman(singular), no matter how inappropriate, does not qualify as misogynistic.

Misogyny is a $10 word constantly being misused because it has that abstract stigma that his hard to argue against.

Similar to calling someone a racist. The person can say "I'm not a racist" and the answer would be "of course you would SAY you weren't a racist".

"Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification." Ripped that off wikipedia. Maybe you disagree with that definition. Find one that supports your beliefs then. We live in the post fact age, you know.

I would include 'sexual objectification', 'hostility', and the belittling of women simply because they're women as misogyny. Dispute me on that if you want.

They wrote misogynist emails. They also sent out other emails that were racist and generally creepy. That doesn't discount the misogynist emails they sent.

What if our own newly elected president says stuff like that. Does that make it ok?

Guessing that the soccer and cross country teams have separate locker rooms...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/locker-room-talk_us_5803819fe4b0e8c198a89710

But our president.... wrote:

What if our own newly elected president says stuff like that. Does that make it ok?

Most of these kids were probably born while Clinton was in office so they learned this type of behavior from a very early age.

For those of you saying all mens teams do this: NO. Not true. You'd never hear the guys on my team say crap like "I don't consider them to be human" or whatever.

celery wrote:

4th paragraph of article uses the word "transphobic" so yeah I would guess the writers are liberals on a righteous crusade to ride the world of free speech and humor.

I don't get it, I'm not a liberal but I'm aware of the word 'transphobic.' How does that immediately tell you they are a liberal?

Why is anything that happens in a private situation an issue? Yes, what they said was wrong but if I come home and complain about my co-workers and say mean things to my wife about them should I get fired for that? No, because I don't say it to them or treat them any differently I just secretly despise a few of them. Private should stay private.

getoveritlibs wrote:

Why is anything that happens in a private situation an issue? Yes, what they said was wrong but if I come home and complain about my co-workers and say mean things to my wife about them should I get fired for that? No, because I don't say it to them or treat them any differently I just secretly despise a few of them. Private should stay private.

What you say at home is your business. But if you're dumb enough to put your comments in an email and someone forwards it to your boss, are surprised by consequences?