Threshold runs or long reps ?

Are the 1000m/1200m intervals at 3:00 pace equal to 5000m race pace?

While I mix in shorter intervals at threshold pace from time to time, I tend to find that the longer sustained intervals are more beneficial, even if only from a mental toughness standpoint. I tend to find that forcing myself to concentrate on form and on working through extended periods of discomfort during the longer tempo sessions translates into better focus on race day.

Physiologically, the advantage of breaking the threshold work up into shorter intervals is that you can usually put in more work than you would on the straight threshold runs. But it seems like you are foregoing that additional work and maybe opting instead for greater intensity (I base this on the assumption that you mentioned a pace for the shorter threshold intervals in a way that suggests it would be faster than the longer threshold sessions; I also base it on a general calculation of your threshold pace assuming that the 1000/1200m intervals were being run at 5k pace - I could be wrong on both counts). As a general rule, I would side against greater intensity. Running those threshold intervals at 3:10 pace instead of 3:15 pace (which would be the desired pace per Daniels assuming 15:00 5k shape) adds stress to your body, while only adding a marginal benefit from increased buildup of lactic acid and related waste products. I just don't think you get much more adaptation, but you get more stress.

Hello,

Thanks for your reply

In answer to your first question - Just about... I say this as when do 5 km road races I seem to be averaging out at 3.05 - 3.08 per km. I am 46. I think I can get fractionally better but not hugely so.

My understanding then of your reply is to stick with the longer threshold sessions. Replacing the longer threshold sessions with short intense reps could be counter productive.

I see you mention form and discomfort; 20-30-40 mins threshold sessions force me to face up to discomfort and try to hold form. I think you have reinforced just what needs to be faced when doing the said sessions. Sometimes I find myself ' folding ' when at the races or doing a longer threshold session. The evidence is there then to keep performing these sessions.

Is there an optimal distance/elapsed time to consider when performing a threshold session ? Presumably that would be based on goal races ie aiming for a 31 min 10 km and 68-69 min half...

Thanks...

Wow! Impressive that you can do 8 x 1000 or 8 x 1200 at 3 min per 1000 pace, faster than your 5k pace! Tinman's calculator for a 15:25 guy gives CV pace as 3:12-3:16 per 1000 and threshold as 3:21-3:26 per 1000.

Tinman's guidelines for CV reps are 420 minutes/5k time in minutes = how many minutes of CV you can do in a workout without overdoing it. So for you it would be about 27 minutes of CV work. His guideline for rest between CV reps is about one third of the rep, so for you 1 minute if doing 3 minute 1000 reps.

You might do better on 8 or 9 x 1000 in 3:12 or 7 x 1200 in 3:50 with a 200 jog in 1 minute. His guideline for tempo (3:31-3:36 per 1000) is 720 minutes/5k time so almost 47 minutes for you. His calculator can be found here:

http://www.runningprs.com/calc2/index.php

I was doing 8 x 1000 at CV when I should have been doing no more than 5. Once I started doing no more than 5 x 1000 per workout (usually 4 x 1000) at CV, I recovered much better and raced much faster.

Best of luck with your season.

If was in 15:30 5k shape (which I was before a recent injury), I would be running your tempo efforts as follows:

20 minute tempo runs at 3:20/1000,

30 minute tempo runs at 3:25/1000, and

40 minute tempo runs at 3:28/1000.

All of these effectuate roughly the same amount of adaptation to the build up and clearing of lactic acid and waste products, and they all effectuate it in the same way - by allowing for the slow and gradual buildup of those substances over the duration of the run. On the slower paced runs, it takes longer for them to buildup, but you give them more time to buildup. If you are racing longer than the 5000, I would try to work in plenty of the 30 to 40 minute tempo runs. If you are focused on the 5000, I would stick with the 20 minute runs.

I would still break up the monotony of constant continuous tempo runs by doing cruise intervals from time to time, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. The rule of thumb there is to keep your pace the same (3:20/1000), but to use short rest periods (1:00 of rest for every 5:00 or work) to allow you to put in more volume (maybe 30 minutes of total work at 3:20 pace instead of 20 minutes, but broken up into 6 x 1500m intervals with 1:00 rest).

As the other poster noted, your 1000m-1200m intervals are fairly aggressively paced. Do you take active rest between those intervals? I suspect that you might be able to get almost all of the benefit of those workouts with less stress on your body by slowing them down to 3:04-3:05 pace (but use active rest to keep your heart rate up between intervals). This would also have the added benefit of helping you lock into your 5k race pace.