Coaches: Need advice with HS athletes not continuing track and managing stress/pressure

You just described the majority of my team.

From my experience, these types are too focused on results and not enough on the process. I try to get them to set levels of goals (adequate, good, ideal) and then we talk about the steps required for those goals. At that point we sort of move away from the end goals themselves and begin to focus on the steps on a daily and weekly basis.

"Do the workout so you can do the workout so you can do THE workout" type of thing.

I also try to eliminate things from race strategies that are absolute and early. The main one we try to remove in XC is "you've gotta get out!" Well, what if they don't? Race is over at 400m? Not likely.

Anyway...back to adapting to stress....most of this is brought on by themselves. Just minimize it and focus on the process instead of the end goal and see where it gets her.

The final thing I would say is that often times these girls - and it is more frequent in girls than boys - tend to develop their self worth based on accomplishments. So try to emphasize enjoyment of the activity as a goal. Maybe that will help.

It really is a tough situation. I've seen too many girls from many different rosters not achieve what they're capable of because of this personality type.

I've coached soccer as well as track and soccer much longer and see this issue with girls in soccer, too. With track/XC I think it's more personal and wears on their minds more, especially given the individual nature of events in track. I agree it's worse overall with girls than with boys, but the trade-off I've found is many girls are more coachable than boys are. I'm not a psychologist and don't know if this is because HS-aged boys feel they have to prove that they're as much an alpha male as their male coach or what (by being less willing to follow directions and more apt to question/protest things) but the girls almost always see this as a total team effort and work on doing their part instead of questioning things or trying to sly the easy way out of workouts. (Coaching soccer, days when we'd run the athletes had to bring running shoes as well as soccer cleats: half the boys would show up in their Vans or whatever, no running shoes time and again. The girls brought the darn running shoes as asked.)

I mention all this because I think it can be used in your favor. Place emphasis on teamwork for girls who are stressed over racing—remind them that their contribution does two things: it reflects on their own performance in that event, at that meet but secondly it helps their team. When you talk about high standards and pushing them, remind them that yeah, you want the best possible outcomes and to get there, they need to push themselves further, but this is in the broader context of team success. You want their best, but if they slip on it, it's not the end of the world. And a poor performance doesn't change their identity as a runner much less a person.

I play pick-up soccer against mostly college-aged guys on the weekends. Sometimes I see (and I'm 42) performances that outstripe my own. It doesn't change my lifelong love of soccer. The fact that say, East Kentwood's or Great Oaks' coaches can claim far more-prestigious national-level team accomplishments and awards than I can doesn't diminish my view of self, either. The athlete must learn to invest in the race at hand, the event at hand, and evaluate the outcome per that single event. Not internalize poor outcomes as something that demerits their wholistic worth. I think personal examples, examples of well-known athletes, are useful.

Throw little parties after each event and even occasionally.

Go out and eat together after races, go to a concert or stand up show, make a tradition for after race.

Troubling post.

I've never had to deal with these kinds of runners, thankfully. I just don't like my athletes to be bogged down with stress or negative feelings, so the team chooses to be confident and optimistic.

Va HS coach wrote:

Troubling post.

I've never had to deal with these kinds of runners, thankfully. I just don't like my athletes to be bogged down with stress or negative feelings, so the team chooses to be confident and optimistic.

So you're saying you made a decision that the team not be bogged down by stress, so they are all just happy go lucky?

Sounds dismissive of what the guy was asking. Also sounds a bit simple. Could you imagine this approach from a psychiatrist - "Stop being sad. Start being awesome instead."

There are certain personality types that seek perfection in everything they do. I would be surprised if you didn't see a single person like this on your roster during your career as you're leading us to believe.

@ Texas HS Coach

@ A FL Coach

Appreciate the response.

I do a similar thing with goal setting prior to each season with all our athletes. To see what their individual and team goals are for the season. This season we've started sitting down and having conversations with each athletes on their goals and how they/we can accomplish them.

Your comment on athletes that focus on the end result vs the process to achieve a result good or bad is what I think is going on here also. And they are also more likely to look at that same result vs enjoying the activity and process. Which is something I am going to focus on in the future.

I have a large range in age 7th-12th grade and abilities. So I try to get them to focus on and buy into the little things day in and out. The gradual build up over the season and years vs instant results. That kinda reflects in low to moderate volume and intensity.

keeping a close eye on how athletes feel in training and racing with different strategies and making sure we're comfortable and doing less vs more.I noticed some of these things as in stress and high expectations from racing and but try to let youngsters work through it and only really address it if we see performance in races or workouts dipping and here after 1-2 'bad days' best races in the season were achieved so I thought best not address and bring it back up.

@ George Ilie

I love the idea of little fun team bonding things.

I actually did one little dinner thing over the summer. and We're trying to do more of that this season.

How have you all approached conversations with said athletes dealing with similar things in terms of conversations if the are thinking about coming back or when they do come back to the team?

Va HS coach wrote:

Troubling post.

I've never had to deal with these kinds of runners, thankfully. I just don't like my athletes to be bogged down with stress or negative feelings, so the team chooses to be confident and optimistic.

Thought the same thing during the last few seasons. Had pretty good success redeveloping the program over the last 6 years and hadn't had any problems. We are a smaller team, but had grown to about 24 boys/girls distance runners.

I guess there is a first time for everything. Just need to have an idea of signs to look for and be better about addressing early.

Wow, so your team is composed of middle and high school athletes? (7th to 12th grades?) My district has high school starting at 9th grade thus all HS teams are 9th thru 12th. I am wondering how this (your situation) may impact team bonding, because you really have a deep age range there. That's something that I've never had to deal with (and coaching club-level soccer has an even narrower age range).

I think team bonding is important, but also must be considered how active and varied these kids are, I mean, I have some who pretty much live for track and others doing dance, piano, whatever else. So it's fair to consider that. It's possible to have, say, an athlete on your team who is also on the school paper and will be covering a soccer game tonight and have an event with your team tomorrow, then some club the next day. I think it's very helpful to know what else your athletes are doing, not just for possible conflicts but to gauge how darned stressed they are. I think this also could tie into your original issue with stress: you have athletes doing several sports, clubs, plus AP courses whatever else. They invest heavily in your sport then are disappointed with their outcome. It's not just the self-esteem aspect of that they hoped they'd do better in a race, it's a ROI issue. And these kids today are very savvy to that. They know on some level they invested so many hours and if the return on that hard work is below what they hoped, then they both blame themselves and become frustrated.

As far as team bonding goes, also check out Tesoro High's instagram for their XC team. (TesoroXC on Instagram) They seem to have a very well-bonded team and do a great job using insta, which is one of the most-popular social media for millennials, to communicate with the team, other students, parents, alumni, and beyond. They really look like they're always having fun, and this is frankly a team that's pretty good but they compete with the likes of Dana Hills and Great Oak, so they're up against some tough competition and I don't think their record matches those schools. But it seems like they're having a whale of a time regardless yet constantly building and bettering their team. Speaking of Great Oak, when they went to NB Nationals this summer I know they stayed an extra day or two to see local sights in Greensboro and do fun stuff. I think that's pretty important considering they flew from California to get there. Like, you might as well take an extra day and go to a waterpark or whatever with the whole team.

Any coaches out there that would be willing to coach me?

19yorunner wrote:

Any coaches out there that would be willing to coach me?

Well, this thread isn't the best place for that question, but if you're going to ask that question, you should also include some info on your history (did you run in HS? what events? what are your current goals?).

Of course, you should foremost search your local area for a capable coach.

Too much pressure coach! Why are you thinking and talking college track with this young lady?

Her 800m time is horrible and there is no way she is going to make a college team. Good 12 year old girls run faster so she is 2-3 years behind already.

Focus on fun and participation and encourage multiple sports at this stage of life.

Nothing kills young athletes faster than early specialization.

First off, yes her times are slow but she can end up running on most div 3 teams easily and enjoy her experience on a team in college. It's healthy and normal for kids to have goals and to talk about them. They will someday have career goals and be pressured. It's important for them to learn how to handle it now in a way that is not costly. It's all part of the maturation process.

Something I don't think has been mentioned here yet is the parental impact on these kids. Most (not all) of the kids that had issues on our team had parents with very defined pressuring expectations of their child's performances. Some driven by potential scholarship opportunities and others by reliving their lives through their children. I have had parents go after other kids on the team to tell them stupid things like, "You know there are a lot of college recruits here today".

I do have a parent's meeting at the beginning of the season where I try to encourage parents to support the kids and not place added pressure on them. I try to do this in a non-insulting way. I'm not sure it completely works but I think maybe it helps a little. I also let them know that they should never address athletes on the team that are not their children other than to be encouraging and supportive. I can't believe I have to tell them this but people can surprise you!

I have had athletes in the past with various anxiety issues. Right now my team is very stable and doesn't have many issues. They get nervous but it doesn't curb their performances. Sometimes I have frank discussions with the girls about anxiety. In a group I occasionally ask them if they are feeling too pressured. They tell me they create the pressure within themselves. Talking about it can be really helpful in finding out where the pressure is coming from. I was happy this year when they told me that I let them know what they are capable of but I never pressure them by saying they have to do something the way other coaches have with them. Sometimes I ask them for constructive criticism. It helps.

A sport's psychologist or a regular psychologist (find out who is good) can be very helpful. If the problem rests with the parents they will hone in on that while in private session even though the parent will be paying for it. The parents who are driving the kids for a scholarship will be happy to bring them there even though the problem originated with them.

"I do have a parent's meeting at the beginning of the season where I try to encourage parents to support the kids and not place added pressure on them. I try to do this in a non-insulting way. I'm not sure it completely works but I think maybe it helps a little. I also let them know that they should never address athletes on the team that are not their children other than to be encouraging and supportive. I can't believe I have to tell them this but people can surprise you!"

^Very good points.

Parents can be awful at times, no matter how good they think their intentions. I once served on an elite travel-team soccer club's board and saw the outlook of parents unmasked there: when I said that we needed to remember the primary goal was that the kids have fun a mom snapped at me that "well, you don't have a kid here, you're a coach, you aren't a real stakeholder!" and that drove home how some of these people truly see youth athletics. She evidently saw the whole deal—from the dues for her kids to be in the club to their effort on the field to her own serving on the board—as an investment towards college scholarships. And because people, especially the type of parents normally pushing their kids towards scholarships and good schools, normally save face when dealing with strangers, I can only imagine how parents like that berate their kids about performance behind closed doors.

There has to be a team culture that acknowledges that pressure can go too far and reminds parents that the coach and team will not be party to pressing athletes in a way that is detrimental to the athletes' development as individuals.

Yeah, we are a very small school in NY, with 9-12 about 180 total students. No modified so we get 7th and 8th graders. Makes it challenging, but it is a small school and area so many already know each other. It allows real development of the athletes tho, and we look to take it slow and work towards building them up so they can continue to improve and develop as they get older and progress if they look to competing in college. I might only get 2-3 new kids in a season. Many with 7th/8th graders, especially girls just hammer hammer and hammer, I assume you've seen it also. very good results 7th-10th grade and than disappearing by 11th or 12th grade.

I think you are hitting a good point on team bonding and building activities. It can help just incorporate fun and relive some stress. I've started including some little activities and games on occasion to change it up and do something different on easy days. Might try to do something like a team dinner or two, pizza party or something. Maybe ice cream afterwards when it gets warmer. In the past I've been preoccupied with the coaching and have left the bonding activities up to the team and captains.

In my original case, I think there's a lot going on, plus having high expectations and comparing to others on the team, along with dealing with the stress of racing. So, we'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the feedback, love the conversations. I'm sure other coaches have had similar incidents or will at some point so It's a good discussion.

Coach G wrote:

Too much pressure coach! Why are you thinking and talking college track with this young lady?

Her 800m time is horrible and there is no way she is going to make a college team. Good 12 year old girls run faster so she is 2-3 years behind already.

Focus on fun and participation and encourage multiple sports at this stage of life.

Nothing kills young athletes faster than early specialization.

Yeah, the time isn't a world beater, but to say its horrible with out any context isn't a good thing. there are many decent D1 or D2 programs looking for 2:25 800m runners, and there's D3. To say that isn't making a college team is wrong on every level.

I coach at a very small school with 7th-12th graders, and develop athletes, not run 7th graders into the ground to disappear like you are talking about. How many actually make it?

I see our young athletes and work to develop them. Have had multiple girls with 2 years of experience through SO year running 2:45, only to run 2:18-2:24. You could also say a senior boy we had, had no talent because they ran 5:10 as a SO running since he was a 7th grader. He finished 3rd in the state in the 3k steeple 9:25.

Many coaches would just overlook these kids and not give them the time of day because their times are 'horrible and can't run in college'.

Back to the point of this discussion, helping kids deal with stress of racing and the pressure/ high expectations they have for themselves.

Completely agree, I think you are right on with the kids developing goals and learning how to deal with pressure, manage the pressure they may put on themselves, and deal with and adapt to the stress of racing. It will certainly help when one 'gets into the real world and has a job and work to do'. I have always done goal sheets with athletes, and am now going over each with each athlete. I like what its been doing so far, chatting with each about the season, whats coming and what they are looking forward to/want to do.

We've had a parents meeting each season just to go over the team and what is going on during the season. Many parents do not know enough about the sport, but we've had a few where there are high expectations on their children from the parents. Not in the current situation I've been talking about, but with other athletes and parents yes.

Being a small, young team I try to have the same approach. Getting more into the process day in and out. Focusing more on effort vs result and looking for 'did you give your all, vs did you hit X time'. Each athlete is different, We've had a few higher end boys or boys relays that have been to that point of more place and time oriented, looking to state and national times. Not so much on the girls end. Just stressing good effort and a building process vs instant results or 1 result.

I try to let athletes figure it out. whether its learning the 'system', or learn how to race with some strategy ideas mixed in. And work try to figure out how to deal with stress on their own. I think it's better if they can see that they are learning something through a bit of trial and error and a bit of direction. Though that this athlete figured it out a bit after 1 or 2 bad races there was a finish on two high PRs, but obviously that's not the case. That is one thing I will do better, and address some stressing out issues if they pop up and further talk and see how each is doing.

Thank you all for the great feedback and discussion.

@HStrack.XC.coach

If she thought your program sucked and did not think much of you as a coach, how would she say that nicely?