What F-M coach Bill Aris knows that no one else knows...

JoJoCo wrote:

The presence of the dog was weird.

Aris was also the only coach on the podium with the team for interviews

Did I hear right that he said he hadn't seen his daughter since she graduated from FM in 2000 but she lives near Portland and gave him the dog? Did I hear that, or was I hallucinating?

Photo of the unhappy FM girls on the podium.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyxiIRfXcAACkGF.jpg

Back It Up wrote:Sources?

You say it isn't a secret that girls run 80-90 and boys run 90-100, but no one ever came on this board to substantiate that, and I have never seen an online article remotely supporting that assertion.

Similarly, you say you have talked to "a lot of (Aris's) athletes" with "horror stories" -- but again no such former athlete has come on these boards over the years to verify such abuse. With Manlius' performance over the past DECADE, you ought to be able to provide more than innuendo.

You say we are "free not to believe you." But I would ask, why should we believe you?

I'll throw my hat into the ring. I went to Binghampton with a former FM runner who let a few secrets fly. One time he mentioned in passing about how the week before the 2009 NXN race Aris dug out a shallow trench somewhere on the school property, hosed it down a ton, and then made his runners do repeats through it to get used to running in absurd mud (I guess because NXN usually pretty muddy and they expected it to be that year too). Anyways to simulate the race he made them do it in the freezing cold in just racing gear and couple of their guys got pneumonia. Their top guy ended up still being sick come NXN and had a pretty bad race (not that it really mattered I think they might have been just barely top-10 anyways).

Other things he let slide to us were that they were made to do mandatory 3-hour long runs, if you were going to be on the boys varsity team you have to do at least 80 miles per week (usually 70ish for girls), and he wanted to know everything you were eating too.

The dude apparently also will carry around a stick at meet. Not sure why, just a weird side not. I've got other things if you're interested.

Its ok that FM pushes kids to commit and be all in and they are successful.

Its ok that some love to compete, and do so via running.

But what if you want to love running, or could, but are not very good or competitive? Sounds like there is no place for you in the program at FM.

I guess you could transfer to another school, where a coach might have a more balanced outlook on HS cross country. At this other school, you might:

-be able to run for fun

-be able to participate even if you are slow

-be able to learn about fitness, training and healthy living

-be able to be part of a team.

I just think at the high school level it is a mistake for coaches to believe that every kid that comes out wants to be state or national champion.

I am more impressed with HS programs that cater to, and are successful in, all aspects of running.

This is such a load of horse dooey! y'all are just looking for an explanation for something simple. hes a good coach cuz he runs the kid hard on occasion, practices for the big day and is a big personality. kids buy in and then they get the right training n nutrition n what have you. Now would you really believe the way to get national class good would be through destroying kids bodies? i'd doubt it.

Wow, way to throw your friend from Binghamton under the bus.

I bet it sucks running for FM though. guy seems like a real kick in the balls.

you just made it very easy for Coach Aris to figure out who is talking about him as not many guys have gone to BInghamton and you cited a year, that will make that young man very comfortable next time he bumps into Aris I bet.

if telling stories about your high school team to your college teammates makes your high school coach mad, your high school coach has problems.

I'll throw my hat into the ring. I went to Binghampton .

You mean Binghamton? How do you not know how to spell your alma mater?

FM in college got it right.

If Zach Miller had run for FM he would have been done at 18 and would never had to succumb to using drugs to experience success in running. Sage Canaday would have fizzled in college and would have a real job today.

OK, my slagging duties are covered for today.

ugh... wrote:

Bill Aris shouldn't be held on a pedestal for what he does. Most intelligent NY coaches are disgusted by him, especially collegiate coaches. (look at syracuse with Nick Ryan)

Brojos, don't let yourselves be brainwashed by him too. He sucks.

That's funny. I was texting one of the Syracuse coaches the other night when this thread started. I apologize for sharing what I know they thought was a private conversation but I just have to.

"I totally admire them."

"Does an incredible job"

"What they do is incredible."

That's what the texts said.

Why does it matter if they don't do a lot in college? Why would anyone expect them to do anything in college?

Did you not read my earlier post? The #1 HS football team in the land has few blue chip recruits. The same is true in HS xc.

Did you watch the broadcast today? I hadn't watched it in a few years but it just reminded me how spread out/bad HS running is as compared to college. Today at NXN, the 100th placer in the boys race was 1:27.7 behind the winner in a 5k!! At NCAAs, over 10k, the 100th placer was just 1:29.6 behind.

You do realize that if you have 5 guys finish 50th overall at NXN you win the boys title going away. Why would we expect the 50th best boys HS runner (really the 80th if we add in FL) to be great at college? You need to remember, we're adding in about 20-30 stud foreigners each year. So you can win an NXN boys title with 5 guys who are all the 100th best recruit in a given year.

Alex Hatz ran 3:39. That's something.

You say it comes "at the cost of future development." I 100% disagree. Please name a single US high school that has produced 10 NCAA qualifiers over the last decade. It doesn't exist.

A smart college coach recruits kids based on how much they've trianed. I always tried to recruit talent - not times.

So, economics matters, alot huh? EVER HERE OF THE MOVIE MCFARLAND USA?

You all know a thread will appear a year form now on the same topic? Just like last year.

rojo wrote:

You do realize that if you have 5 guys finish 50th overall at NXN you win the boys title going away. Why would we expect the 50th best boys HS runner (really the 80th if we add in FL) to be great at college? You need to remember, we're adding in about 20-30 stud foreigners each year. So you can win an NXN boys title with 5 guys who are all the 100th best recruit in a given year.

A better way to look at it is, how many of them finished top20 at the NXR meet? There are your D-I runners.

At New York, F-M had 5 girls in the top 20. None were seniors, however, and from the way this board talks none of those 5 will run D-I. The seniors in the top 20 are likely all signed.

4th - Lawson - Stanford

8th - Vestri - Iowa State

12th - Kostarellis - Xavier

16th - Eva Scott - destination unknown

18th - Orie - Penn

20th - Watson - destination unknown, but she ran in the Olympic Trials for 800m this summer

Most years they only rolled out 1 or 2 4:25 type runners. The program was build on 4:35-4:45 milers who would go out and run 16:00-16:30 on the XC courses. You get 5 of those guys out there and you had excellent odds of winning the state meet if the other powerhouse school didn't have a dominate team. You would have occasional studs (one guy was an footlocker all american, another became an NCAA XC AA) and slightly more talented people (the 4:20 milers). Where did these guys come from? Running 50-60mpw year round. Nothing fancy but the coach could get people to do because there would be 10-15 other people (the rest of the team wasn't as dedicated) who would and if you wanted to run varsity, you did the work. Those extra 15-20 miles over what most other teams did was the difference between being a 17:30 runner and a 16:30 runner.

There is a lot to be said for having good training partners. If you have run a zillion miles next to someone for 4 years and they run well, you think you have done the same training, you can run well also. And when your team has 5 or 6 9:30-10:00 runners on it, that time doesn't seem as intimidating as when you are running a 10:20 and 30 seconds faster than all of your team mates. Numerous kenyans have said that running side by side with olympians/WC gave them plenty of confidence when they toed the line at races.

Rojo no way do most college coaches recruit "talent not time." I asked a few coaches at seminars if they'd take the 4:12 miler who ran 70 miles a week and did stuff like 10x400 in 62 or the 4:20 miler who ran 30 miles a week and never ran more than 8x400 in 65. They wouldn't answer that question. No way do they take a chance on potential talent.

Sort of an awkward moment when the emcee asked the FM girls on stage while receiving their championship trophy when they were first aware of the powerhouse that is FM. The answer for every single one of the 7 girls was 8th grade when they started training with the team. Literally every single one, although it sounds like maybe a few started in 7th, but didn't feel the need to make a big deal of it. The girls obviously work extremely hard and make tremendous sacrifices.

This is not a knock on Aris just like it's not a knock on Wetmore that his team has the potential advantage of altitude. Both are brilliant and passionate coaches that take advantage of the resources they have.

Working with 7th or 8th graders is a resource very few states have. Anyone know offhand which states allow middle schoolers to run with HS teams?