JFK 50 Miler record crushed 5:21:29

No. It is mine

guy who knows nothing wrote:

6:25 pace for 50 miles doesn't sound so crazy.

Elites run sub-6 for easy pace every day, twice a day, 120+ miles in a week. If your marathon pace is sub-5, and your easy pace is sub-6, I would think 50 mile pace would be somewhere in between, no?

Almost nobody running 120 mpw averages under 6:00 for easy days.

Also, Jims marathon pace would be more like 5:10, not sub 5.

Thirdly, his pace at JFK was 6:24, but with the early hills that's probably worth about 6:10-6:15s. For 50 miles!, running 120 mpw the week before.

Agree with what you wrote.Considering the rocky AT section and other hills at JFK I think that pace is actually more impressive though. The tow path is not as fast as a road-track surface, albeit mostly flat.Runners like Tony Migliozzi, a 2:17 marathoner and IAU 50km world champ, along with Max King with his 2:14 speed and ultra experience could quite easily go sub 5 hr for 50 miles on a track. Guys in the '70s and '80's used to go down to 4:53 for 50 miles on the road. That is nothing new, and any sub 2:20-2:18 marathoner with ultra experience has a good shot at that kind of pace. But what is more amazing is that Jim crushed Max's record by over 13 minutes and improved on his own last two winning times by nearly 27 minutes and 36 minutes respectively. Then there is his very fast recovery from monster training all this year, with 120 miles the week before the race.

reed wrote:

guy who knows nothing wrote:

6:25 pace for 50 miles doesn't sound so crazy.

Elites run sub-6 for easy pace every day, twice a day, 120+ miles in a week. If your marathon pace is sub-5, and your easy pace is sub-6, I would think 50 mile pace would be somewhere in between, no?

Almost nobody running 120 mpw averages under 6:00 for easy days.

Also, Jims marathon pace would be more like 5:10, not sub 5.

Thirdly, his pace at JFK was 6:24, but with the early hills that's probably worth about 6:10-6:15s. For 50 miles!, running 120 mpw the week before.

I am not trying to start anything here, but a serious question if anyone knows the answer please - why is Jim Walmsley not still in the Air Force?

According to the AF Academy, a minimum 5 years of active duty commitment is required after graduation:

"You will accept an appointment and serve as a commissioned officer in the Air Force for at least eight years after graduation, five of which must be active duty and the remainder can be served as inactive reserve. You will become eligible to request a separation from the Air Force after five years of service."

In his Nuun athlete profile, Jim Walmsley says he spent 3 years as an officer after he graduated, stating that he "seperated" from the AF. A Trailrunner Magazine article says he was "discharged" in March 2015. My understanding is that he graduated from the academy in May 2012, making his post-academy service duration a little under 3 years?

Seems like a 5 year comitment should have had him on active duty until at least 2017?

Dr. Fill wrote:

I am not trying to start anything here, but a serious question if anyone knows the answer please - why is Jim Walmsley not still in the Air Force?

Drugs?

I'm not trying to start anything either.

It happens. wrote:

Drugs?

I'm not trying to start anything either.

I am hoping it is not that.

I look at Walmsley's run at JFK a little differently and was not surprised at all at the time he ran.

Walmsley didn't approach the race only to win it. He had already done that twice. He approached the race with the goal of running 5:25 regardless of what had been done before. Therefore he wasn't racing the other runners, he was racing the clock and I am sure he had pretty specific splits he wanted to hit on the way. He was actually up on Max King's time over 15 minutes when he hit the towpath. That means King ran FASTER over the last 30 some miles.

I wouldn't be surprised if you took the North Face field that will be competing in two weeks and put them all in JFK, you would have had a lot of "incredible" times.

I AM shocked by how fast Walmsley is recovering. Two miles at 11:30 pace the following day and now on the third day he is already able to crush a 4 miler at 8:30 pace.

Good question about the Air Force. But I'm not gonna be the one to ask I'm about it. Maybe the time spent in college counts in the 5 years somehow.

Or maybe he got a medical exemption. Thyroid issue? jk

Also, I don't think Max King was really time trialling when he set the CR. I just read his race report found in irunfar. He ran with another guy on the AT section, 15.5mi in 1:54. Then soloed the 26.3 towpath in 2:44, then closed the last 8.4 in 56. He was going for the record of 5:40, but I bet if the record had been faster, he could've run faster.

Looks like Jim split 1:44 on the 15.5mi, but we don't have his other splits yet. I'm not gonna trust the strava splits but basically he ran 5:50s for a big stretch after the AT where he put another few minutes on Max's time. Seems like they ran about the same for the final 8.4mi, about 6:40s

You're a sad little man.

reed wrote:

Also, I don't think Max King was really time trialling when he set the CR. I just read his race report found in irunfar. He ran with another guy on the AT section, 15.5mi in 1:54. Then soloed the 26.3 towpath in 2:44, then closed the last 8.4 in 56. He was going for the record of 5:40, but I bet if the record had been faster, he could've run faster.

Looks like Jim split 1:44 on the 15.5mi, but we don't have his other splits yet.

Rechecked the post by Andy Mason and it was 10 minutes at the 15.5 mile checkpoint. So Walmsley was a little faster over the last 35 miles.

Another split I noticed was the first 2.5 mile split. Max went through in 17:32. Walmsley went through in 16:15. (30 seconds/mile)

his splits were

2.5.......16:15

15.5.....1:44:12

27.1....2:51:36

38.4...4:02:33

41.8...4:26:26

50.2...5:21:28

I would give the link but the fukked up way this site now "opens" it up makes it very hard to follow. Info can be found by going to results for JFK 50 mile and going to live 2016 results.

I agree with you that JFK50 has not had the competitive depth over the years compared to a race like Western States or The North Face.Keep in mind Zach Miller, won North Face 50 last year, has consistently been one of the top Americans at ultras for the past two years. He ran 5:38 at JFK on a windy day. [Yes, that's right, amazingly enough 10km track times aren't everything in the longer distance ultras]. It is likely Zach, Max and a few others might be able to dip under 5:30 on a very good day at JFK...but 5:21?, that is considerably better. Speaking of Max, we now know that his mile (4:05 to Jim's 4:04), 3km (8:05 to Jim's 8:03), 5km (13:54 to Jim's 13:52) and 10km (29:08 to Max's 29:01) are amazingly similar to all Jim's times. Where a runner like Max and Jim differ is in experience (mostly due to age).Max has established himself as a 2:14 marathoner, who was top 20 in the last two Olympic Trials. He has also established himself as the World 100km Champion with an American Record of 6:27 in that race. Jim has run on the road sparingly, and when he ran IAU 100km he had a big positive split day with a 28th place and a 7:05. Keep in mind he went out in the lead and split 3:05-:08 or so through the first 50km, but that is not a totally insane pace considering what Max was able to close in. Jim went out fast and died there. Fine, it happens.But if Jim was really discharged early from the Air Force in March 2015, then perhaps he had some more time to train that year?I think Jim is right that his most impressive performance this year is Western States. His 6:00 at Lake Sonoma and his Grand Canyon rim records and JFK now are all very impressive and part of an unprecedented year, but what he was on pace for at Western 100 (a more established US ultra race with arguably more competitive depth and history) was totally off the charts.Compared to Max King, who broke open a lead at Western for the first 70 miles or so in '14 and gamely finished in 4th place, Jim ran superhumanly well. In 2014 at the 100km mark (Foresthil) in the race Max led Rob Krar (eventual 2-time Champion, 3:44 1500m runner and 1:05 half runner) in 9:26. Fast forward to this year and it was Jim coming through in 8:48. He would've been 38-minutes ahead of King at 100km mark when King was leading Western States on an arguably cooler day (high of 89 in 2015, high of 92 in 2016). Even guys like Canaday (2:16 marathoner, experienced ultra runner) came through that point in 9:12 and also under CR pace looking like he was going to bonk hard, which he did. Jim came through looking fresh as a daisy like he was running a 5km. At mile 80 near the "Rucky Chucky" river crossing Jim split a 10:59. By then Max King would have been over 1 hour behind Jim. Only ultra experienced, 100-mile master Rob Krar had hit the river in as fast as 11:33 on a similar hot day...but he would've been totally sucking dust 34 minutes behind Jim. Jim was simply running an average pace of 26 seconds/mile faster than anybody had ever done in the history of Western States (given all weather conditions, even the rare 'cool' years) . Way faster than Krar, way faster than King, and much, much faster than Jornet. At the kind of elite level all these guys run ultras at, where podium positions can often be determined by seconds or maybe up 5-10minutes over the entire race, that is a HUGE pace drop.

Competitive depth like Western States? Are you serious? Did Joe Gray run WS? Alex Nichols? How about any great mountain guy? No. Didn't think so.

A.K. wrote:

You're a sad little man.

Such put downs are a common response to investigative journalists.

You need to try harder.

Dr. Fill wrote:

In his Nuun athlete profile, Jim Walmsley says he spent 3 years as an officer after he graduated, stating that he "seperated" from the AF. A Trailrunner Magazine article says he was "discharged" in March 2015. My understanding is that he graduated from the academy in May 2012, making his post-academy service duration a little under 3 years?

Could be a number of things:

1) Physical standards. Doubt it.

2) Medical. This is possible.

3) He went Palace Chase or something - that's where you leave active duty early if you double your time left with the National Guard or something. But I assume you'd mention that you're a reservist.

I think we're all assuming something bad when it probably wasn't. Unless it was a bad discharge of some sort - which in case I want to hear gossip.

glj/ wrote:

Competitive depth like Western States? Are you serious? Did Joe Gray run WS? Alex Nichols? How about any great mountain guy? No. Didn't think so.

Gray never runs beyond 50k. Moot point. Does Killian Jornet count as a "great mountain" guy? He won Western States. Taking race duration and distance into account, yes, Western States has a fair competitive depth for a US ultra (not many do) with its history and density of top 10 finishers. The other ones being North Face 50 mile and Lake Sonoma 50 mile.

Heck even 2:22 marathoner and Stanford runner Chris Mocko 'only' finished in 7th place at Western this year.

"Does Killian Jornet count as a "great mountain" guy?"

This is where you lost any credibility.

Hmmm, why so defensive, Jim?

I'm not Jim.

But we all know who's really behind half of the posts here.

people improve, and they do often without doping but accumulating big volume,races, experience or whatever works.

the ones who do not improve at the same rate see cheaters everywhere