58 sec to 53 sec 400m

Also would like to point out my focus is 800/1600 but I need to improve my speed

What's your other prs?

How many 400m races have you trained for and run? The 400m is a good weed-out distance. If you've run several around 58 then you just don't have 53 speed. I ran a couple 53s and concluded that I'll never run 50.

Seems simple enough:

sprint training: 10x100 @ 95 percent of max speed, full recovery every week

speed endurance: 200 and 300 meter reps, full recovery, at faster than 400m pace every other week

Strides after easy runs

jamin wrote:

How many 400m races have you trained for and run? The 400m is a good weed-out distance. If you've run several around 58 then you just don't have 53 speed. I ran a couple 53s and concluded that I'll never run 50.

I ran 3 4x4 relays last spring, and they were all after doubling either 8/16 or 4x8 and 32. Also I didnt really do any 400 specific training.

Are you saying 400 is just natural talent then?

Tired of average times wrote:

Are you saying 400 is just natural talent then?

Yes.

maybe you're just slow wrote:

What's your other prs?

800: 2:09

1600: 4:48

you will get faster in the 800 by training for the 800, and faster in the 1600 by training for the 1600.

if you are slow in the 400 you probably not benefit from sprint training. it will wear you down quickly and you will see quick diminishing returns.

Ok thanks.

If you've only run 58, that is by no means your limit. You will improve 400 speed with aerobic conditioning as well as general strength. Now if you've been lifting and running 50+ mpw for several years, that's a different story.

Just keep building mileage over the next few training cycles and there's a good chance you could at least run 55.

Tired of average times wrote:

maybe you're just slow wrote:

What's your other prs?

800: 2:09

1600: 4:48

Don't waste time on the middle distances. Focus on the 5k or longer. Always bet on your strong cards.

plyometrics, e.g. bounding up hills, box jumps, skipping rope; squats, first without weight and then gradually adding weight with proper form; leg weights; stadium steps, short, steep hills fast, walk recovery, frequent strides, 60-300m sprint repeats with full recovery and a lower quantity than you'd do as a distance runner. Those are all things that should improve your power and basic speed. As you physically mature, that will also bring down your time. I'd be surprised if you don't get down below 55 by Spring on this program. And since you're not doing high mileage, it is quite possible to build muscle. You'll likely see improvement at 800m and 1600m as well.

Tired of average times wrote:

maybe you're just slow wrote:

What's your other prs?

800: 2:09

1600: 4:48

Don't listen to anyone who tells you your limit in the 400 is 58. It sounds like your fitness lines up pretty well with where I was freshman year of college (58/2:08/4:42) - and with distance training, my times dropped to 54/1:58/4:20 over the course of my college running. Had I done more than one indoor relay 400 per year, I imagine I probably could have run 53, if not 52-high.

This is not to say sprint training couldn't get you there as well, but solid distance training that focuses on getting stronger overall will help your long-sprint times, too.

And to jamin, you could run faster than 53 if you followed better training plans. Somehow it is not surprising to see you post about get-rich-quick schemes, after you have posted plenty of your get-fast-quick (or get injured trying) training plans.

No. You can improve it. Repeats up to 300m will help the 400m for nonspecialists. For real speed do 5x60-100m all out with 5-8min rest for full recovery. 6x150-300m @800m pace -2s per 200m. Example for this being a 2:00 800m runner doing these in 28s each. The rest should be 1-2 minutes of active walking/jogging.

jamin wrote:

Tired of average times wrote:

Are you saying 400 is just natural talent then?

Yes.

I improve my athletes speed in small doses basically. My athletes run six says a week with three hard and three easy days. Two of the easy days we end with 8x80m, and the third we do plyos/sprints instead. I end tempo runs with 200s, 150s, hills etc. I like 2x200-2x150-2x100-2x50. Always fast.with good rest. Race pace workouts end with an all out rep or 200s 150s or 100s.

My freshman of high school year I ran about a 57 second 400, and then dropped to just below 53 my sophomore year. So I did about what you're looking to do. Now, I'm one of those natural 400m runners that you're talking about and the 400m is my best race so my training probably differs from you if you focus on 800/1600m. The big difference between my freshman and sophomore year is that I actually kept up my fitness over the winter before track season. The biggest thing you can do is stay fit over the winter, but where you and I differ is that you probably want to run more miles than someone like me would. Try and hit some weights as well to keep those fast twitch muscles stimulated. Also, lactic acid threshold workouts are a must for 400m, but will help you in the 800m and 1600m as well.

Whoever tells you that your sprint times cannot be VERY significantly improved, (especially since you are still in high school!), either does not want you to improve your times or is answering reflexively without any thought. If you genuinely desire improving your sprint times, whether it's the 100 or the 400, find a coach and/or program that fits the goal. Assuming you follow through with the plans and have no injuries, you will be more than pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

Do more speed work. Get in good races. With people you hate losing to. My first 400 was a 68 in a relat my sophomore year of high school (I'm a guy. It was horrendous). By senior year, I could run 57s with no effort, and got down to low 54s in the right races. I didn't focus on the 400 either, I was an 800 / Mile guy who trained with my schools distance group.

Speed work wrote:

Do more speed work. Get in good races. With people you hate losing to. My first 400 was a 68 in a relat my sophomore year of high school (I'm a guy. It was horrendous). By senior year, I could run 57s with no effort, and got down to low 54s in the right races. I didn't focus on the 400 either, I was an 800 / Mile guy who trained with my schools distance group.

Precisely. It sounds like you could still have improved (and still can).