Congrats on the PR. No doubt sub-3 is in your future (or in your past if not for the wrong turn).
Congrats on the PR. No doubt sub-3 is in your future (or in your past if not for the wrong turn).
Thanks for your kind words, Md.Runner. Now I must set my mind on getting a true sub-3--running the best I can within the realm of my capability. I have my training plan mostly laid out, and hopefully the JD book will help me to tweak it. Lots of interesting winter training ahead., and I need to find a good place to stay for the NYC Half, hopefully for just one night.
The mat wasn't exactly at 32k. I'm sure the timing company used the same mat that was the 10k split and probably didn't move it. So that split will be slightly off.
outsiderunner wrote:
Thanks for your kind words, Md.Runner. Now I must set my mind on getting a true sub-3--running the best I can within the realm of my capability. I have my training plan mostly laid out, and hopefully the JD book will help me to tweak it. Lots of interesting winter training ahead., and I need to find a good place to stay for the NYC Half, hopefully for just one night.
Good to hear. Just be careful with winter training. It's a ripe time for injuries.
outsiderunner wrote:
Thanks for your kind words, Md.Runner. Now I must set my mind on getting a true sub-3--running the best I can within the realm of my capability. I have my training plan mostly laid out, and hopefully the JD book will help me to tweak it. Lots of interesting winter training ahead., and I need to find a good place to stay for the NYC Half, hopefully for just one night.
Translation: "I'm not actually going to follow the JD plan, and I'm still not actually going to listen to the overwhelming majority telling me to actually follow a plan from someone who has studied this before. I'm just going to keep doing what I do and if I get injured it's the Virginia cold's fault."
Don't forget to find a place with a mini fridge! Wouldn't want that lack of refrigerated vegetables to keep you from your goals.
That was kind of mean, don't you think?
Meh - given how long this has gone on, I thought it was on target. And funny.
No I feel I have been nothing but helpful in this thread. The lack of cold vegetables clearly threw him off his game last time he was in New York and I would hate for that to happen again. What other explanation is there for not going sub-3 when he's obviously in 2:50 shape?
outsiderunner wrote:
I need to find a good place to stay for the NYC Half, hopefully for just one night.
Surely there is someone out there enjoying this thread from NYC who would be willing to let me - I mean, you, crash on their couch for one night.
I agree with Mr. Pumpkins. I would think your starting point would be the Daniels plan, with any minimal modifications you absolutely HAVE to make to make it work (e.g. long run on Saturday instead of Sunday for family time, etc.)--not the other way around. A marathon training cycle on that, then evaluate.
I don't have a personal stake in whether you follow Daniels or not. But if you're going to try it you should be serious and methodical about it rather than half-ass it.
The bridge is .119 mi from the trail, so it looks like you went .238 mi off. At 7 min pace, that's 1:39...so you could say 2:00 off course to be fair. This gives you 3:05:30...or thereabouts. This, of course, assumes you didn't just go off to go to the bathroom...which I know you say you didn't.
He'd still blow your PR away.
You could have been as far as .27 mi off course if you went all the way over the bridge. It's hard to believe you your story when you see a satellite view of the area because Monkton Rd is a wide major road with shoulders and everything...absolutely nothing like a rail trail. But if you say so...then OK. I'm sure you can see why it's very difficult to believe.
Md.Runner wrote:
David S. Pumpkins wrote:Translation: "I'm not actually going to follow the JD plan, and I'm still not actually going to listen to the overwhelming majority telling me to actually follow a plan from someone who has studied this before. I'm just going to keep doing what I do and if I get injured it's the Virginia cold's fault."
Don't forget to find a place with a mini fridge! Wouldn't want that lack of refrigerated vegetables to keep you from your goals.
He'd still blow your PR away.
You're right. The metric every runner measures himself by is whether they can...by baseless estimation... beat David S. Pumpkins in a footrace. Self-improvement be damned. Honest evaluation of whether they're living up to their potential be damned. If someone asks for help and ignores the advice, it's because they already think that they can beat David S. Pumpkins, so why bother getting better?
PTF wrote:
You could have been as far as .27 mi off course if you went all the way over the bridge. It's hard to believe you your story when you see a satellite view of the area because Monkton Rd is a wide major road with shoulders and everything...absolutely nothing like a rail trail. But if you say so...then OK. I'm sure you can see why it's very difficult to believe.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6995930
I went all the way over the bridge. Yes, Monkton Rd. is nothing like a trail. As I have already explained, there was a right turn coming toward the end of the race, a turn onto a road. This where where I thought I were being directed to go. I could not see anyone in front of me (no other runner in sight), and the police officer seemed to directing me to turn right.
I've already agreed that outsiderunner's story is an unfortunate collection of curious circumstances leading to speculation. That said, I don't think your comment here is fair. There is a right turn on the course, onto a fairly busy road, correct? He just turned a couple of miles early, at the wrong road. I know many people have said it's impossible to get lost on this trail course but I can imagine taking the wrong turn in the late stages of a marathon, when I'm exhausted and easily confused.The stranger occurrence is that two women he randomly met happened to know the marathon course, but I'm guessing maybe that wasn't expressed verbatim? Maybe he asked them "Is this X Road?" since he knew the name of the road he was supposed to turn onto and they explained that he had to go back to the trail for a couple of more miles?
PTF wrote:
You could have been as far as .27 mi off course if you went all the way over the bridge. It's hard to believe you your story when you see a satellite view of the area because Monkton Rd is a wide major road with shoulders and everything...absolutely nothing like a rail trail. But if you say so...then OK. I'm sure you can see why it's very difficult to believe.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6995930
I have done some maths, based on three runners that beat you that posted much more even splits, I have surmised that the timing mat could have been at something closer to mile 20.4 instead of 19.9 like it stated. In this scenario, you hit 13.1mi at 7.04min/mile pace. 20.4 at 6.96min/mile pace. Assuming you were able to maintain your pace from 13.1-20.4mi for the last 5.8mi, and assuming you actually did go off course, the best time I see out of that would be 3:01:40. In order to go sub-3 you would have had to close those last 5.8mi 17 sec/mi faster than you ran 13.1-20.4mi. I don't see it.
So, at the most optimistic I can possibly be, maybe you were in PR contention and missed a turn. But you still are not a sub-3 marathoner. Read the book, follow the book, report back next year when you run sub-3 by doing it the right way.
I can show my work if necessary.
This race has been talked about ad nauseam, but I still have no idea what police officer you are talking about. I don't remember seeing this guy. In fact, there were a couple of road crossings the last couple of miles on the rail trail with zero traffic control, which surprised me a bit.
It's strange that those 2 runners that were pretty close behind you according to the splits didn't say anything to you when you missed the turn.
No help wrote:
It's strange that those 2 runners that were pretty close behind you according to the splits didn't say anything to you when you missed the turn.
Indeed. No one said anything, in fact. Not even the police officer who was there to prevent this kind of thing from happening.