Disappointed at NYC Marathon--Should I go back-to-back?

outsiderunner wrote:

3:07:30...and 1:32:14 at the half split...but it is not the five minute positive split that it appears to be. According to the clock it is, but not according to what happened.

Congrats. It takes a lot of guts to run that second marathon so close after NYC (or should I call it your first ultra ;) and to share your story here, I respect that.

What I don't respect, is that you call posters trolls when they have given you a lot of fine advice in this thread.

If you view this map, I can understand why some find a wrong turn hard to believe: you just had to remember to turn around at mile 13, turn to the right between 24 and 25 and turn to the left at 26. But I know that it's often hard to think clearly when running hard.

So please, share the GPS file. It literally takes one minute and will silence the "haters". It is just a few clicks in Garmin Connect or TomTom or whatever website you are using.

Now follow the advice in this thread and get that sub-3 next year! Good luck.

Congrats on the near PR. I think you should just put an asterisk on it since it would have been one of you had not been led off course.

Don't listen to the haters on this thread. And you don't need to post you GPS data. You've given enough evidence to show that you are being honest.

Sam Ford wrote:

Congrats on the near PR. I think you should just put an asterisk on it since it would have been one of you had not been led off course.

Don't listen to the haters on this thread. And you don't need to post you GPS data. You've given enough evidence to show that you are being honest.

Is is 1:32 at the half as his only data point enough to prove he was going to break 3:02, his old PR?

Mt. Runmore wrote:

Sam Ford wrote:

Congrats on the near PR. I think you should just put an asterisk on it since it would have been one of you had not been led off course.

Don't listen to the haters on this thread. And you don't need to post you GPS data. You've given enough evidence to show that you are being honest.

Is is 1:32 at the half as his only data point enough to prove he was going to break 3:02, his old PR?

Read the his race report. He said he was running 6:30s and 6:40s the second half. Yeah, that would be a NEGATIVE SPLIT.

You clearly log your runs. Just post the link to the file and silence the haters once and for all.

Why should he? You guys will just find some way to not pick it.

I agree, Sam Ford--I have been open and honest about both my training and what happened at the race. In an effort to satisfy those who have accused me of being dishonest--for no reason whatsoever--I just created an account at the Garmin site, and will share the link for the race...

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1462904062

Notice that things are as I have indicated, a wrong turn between miles 21 and 22, and the wrong turn took place at Monkton Road, the intersection where the police car was parked. You can also observe that my watch was, indeed, wacky, recording 24.15 miles, just as I said, and giving some crazy paces there in the second half (11-, 12-, 13-minute paces), just as I said. I am no expert with these devices or with this computer application, but it also appears to have tracked me in a wacky manner, in general. I certainly did not wade across Big Gunpowder Falls and then take a dip there. I do remember going over the bridge on Monkton Road. That is where I saw the two women who told me I was going in the wrong direction.

AllI can is that is was the worst feeling I have ever had in a race. It sent shivers through my body, and took me "off course" in more than one manner.

I feel your pain, outside runner. Just remember that this event may affect you in your next few races. You're tough though. You'll get through this.

Run Hard!

Well, that quieted the peanut gallery.

"It looks like you don't have access privileges to view this activity."

I have now set the privacy setting to "everyone." Did not know I needed to do this. Thus, all should be able to view the activity now.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1462904062?zebratwo=CJ

outsiderunner wrote:

I have now set the privacy setting to "everyone." Did not know I needed to do this. Thus, all should be able to view the activity now.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1462904062?zebratwo=CJ

You have been the most transparent poster on this board. You don't owe them anything.

outsiderunner wrote:

Is not the odometer stuff a hassle when it comes to longer distances?

Once the odometer is calibrated, it's just a matter of going for a bike ride to measure the loops. If there isn't a convenient landmark at the mile points, I don't worry about it. For my 20-mile loop, I know the locations of 1, 2, 5, 10, 16, 17, 19. Good enough!

outsiderunner, I mentioned previously that I think you're capable of running well below 3:00 ... closer to 2:50, with modified training (read the Daniels book!). As a comparison, I looked up my 12-week training prior to running 2:56:04 in my mid-40s. That was my 24th marathon, but the FIRST one under three hours in more than 20 years ...

Some key points:

During the 12 weeks, I averaged 48 miles per week with a peak of 63.

I had seven runs of 18 to 23 miles, most at 8:30/mi, with the FASTEST at 7:48/mi.

Key workouts were a couple 12-mile progression runs, starting at 8:00/mi, and finishing with 6:45, 6:30, 6:05.

My ONE "outsiderunner" type workout was 14 miles at 7:02/mi on the actual marathon course, five weeks before the marathon.

I included five races during the 12-week period, including a half marathon three weeks before marathon (1:22:47), and a 5K (17:32) one week before.

I weighed 170 at the time (5'11"), so you also have the advantage of being built more like a marathoner!

Happy running, and I hope you'll take some of the good advice that's been offered by so many folks here. And I hope you will venture back to the forum to share your future successes!

I also needed to "unlock" the individual activity. I knew this would be a chore...not a simple "one minute" thing. The activity is now unlocked.

Thanks for answering my question, Allen1959, and for providing details that are very specific.

Yes, I am built like a marathoner.

Wow, you ran a sub-3:00 after not having do so in more than 20 years--bravo!

Thanks for the link, this confirms your story.

You can see that the GPS lost signal several times (where there is a straight red line on the map) and finally after the wrong turn (see also the elevation chart).

Do you have the latest firmware for your Forerunner 230?

By the way, Garmin Connect is a very useful website, you can track your mileage, create custom workouts, track how old your shoes are, monitor your weight etc.

The GPS data is incomplete, but it seems like you reached that wrong turn after 2:29:11. You still had to run 4.7mi after that point. 4.7mi @ 6:23 pace = 30 minutes. 2:29:11 + 30:00 = 2:59:11...

Anyway, follow some of the advice here and you will get that sub 3 for sure. Keep us updated. Good luck!

I checked the Strava Flyby's just for fun:

http://labs.strava.com/flyby/viewer/#786218520?c=dr190mpt&z=E&t=1OER9e&a=GL7cLvDS3S7bkd4uO8rcLtfB3i4igOwujcTcLjHx6C4-ht4uWKzdLvck3y762d0ua-TcLtgR3i4d0t0uRwXdLmy34S7sqN8ulLreLlFY3S4J690uYrvfLi2W3i6X1t8uB3_fLkan4i5g9d4uyjDeLhE43i7aMeAuWOvdLg343S50qtwuEkDdLnT12i4&s=64

Seems like most runners didn't have any trouble with their GPS watch. Really sucks that your watch was inaccurate. Was it a new purchase?

Btw, it looks like Molkinsloth has won a free pair of New Balance shoes, because of his negative split!

Thanks...Yes, Molk ran a fine race.

Yes, purchased the watch a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, things went badly for me (watch and going off course), but as I have said, I felt very good down the stretch, and I now know what I have.

Clicking off good miles, passing people, and then going off course was truly horrifying. The feeling I had when I realized what had happened is almost indescribable.