Disappointed at NYC Marathon--Should I go back-to-back?

You ran two minutes from your PR and within 4-6 of your goal, suffered from leg pain you've never experienced before and now you think you should run another marathon on the 20th? Hell, No! Gear up for spring.

The opposite. You should not run for 2 weeks.

Agreed!

I side with the others - do not go back-to-back. Some folks are capable of doing that, I suppose, but if you gave a marathon a max effort, which you clearly did, it takes a toll on your body, and you need to recover before you get back at it.

Compounding the issue is that while I don't doubt your commitment or your running ability, the odds are stacked against you coming back and knocking it out of the park two weeks after such an effort, so the toll your body suffers will more likely than not be for naught.

Regroup, take pride in having left it all out on the course, figure out your nutrition plan for next race, and start planning for the spring.

Thanks, folks...

I am not a spring marathoner. The two worst months here for training are January and February. I do not run on a tread mill, and run all of my miles outdoors. I have been injured two winters in a row--both in the same type of weather (about 5 degrees, with the windchill)...one in early January and the next year in early February. Such is why I will probably never run Boston, even though I have now qualified twice for it. For me: winter miles = injury. I would not want to do 20-milers in Jan. or Feb.

I see your points here, but my friend thinks I should not waste the great fitness I currently have. I trained like an animal this summer.

Go for it, bud. New York is not a very fast course either. Even with the race experience you described you may have got your sub three on a flat course.

Why did you do a 22 mile marathon pace run? Sounds like you wasted your sub-3 on that workout.

In any event, I agree that NYC is not a great PR race. Probably no harm in giving it another shot in two or three weeks. Pick a small flat race course -- it will use slightly different muscles.

Smoove, et. al...

Also, how does a guy run a 22 at 6:53 in training (with hills), and yet run only 7:03 pace in a marathon? I also ran an 18 at 6:51 overall. In both of these runs, I had plenty left when done. I believe this is the first time where I have run faster in training than in the goal race. My best 20+ last year was 7:03 pace...then I ran 6:57 pace at Richmond. That makes sense. One should always be faster in the race, even if by a couple of seconds per mile.

I remain baffled.

outsiderunner wrote:One should always be faster in the race, even if by a couple of seconds per mile.

Always? No. Not even close.

You were so close to your time objective with issues. That seems like an event well executed.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:One should always be faster in the race, even if by a couple of seconds per mile.

Always? No. Not even close.

You were so close to your time objective with issues. That seems like an event well executed.

Thanks...I needed to hear some kind words. They are appreciated.

Raysism wrote:

Why did you do a 22 mile marathon pace run? Sounds like you wasted your sub-3 on that workout.

In any event, I agree that NYC is not a great PR race. Probably no harm in giving it another shot in two or three weeks. Pick a small flat race course -- it will use slightly different muscles.

The race I have selected is exactly as you describe--a small, flat course. Also, I believe it is mostly on fairly fine/packed gravel.

Still thinking...

You have not wasted the great fitness you currently have. You used it to run an excellent time on a very challenging course. It's disappointing to put in a long-term effort and not get the exact goal you had hoped for but when you consider how thoroughly you trained for NYC does it really make sense to think you could run faster a couple of weeks after thrashing your body the way you've described?And if you are determined to run another marathon before winter, why not something in December? Tucson, Dec 10, fast downhill course.

outsiderunner wrote:

I see your points here, but my friend thinks I should not waste the great fitness I currently have. I trained like an animal this summer.

outsiderunner wrote:

Also, how does a guy run a 22 at 6:53 in training (with hills), and yet run only 7:03 pace in a marathon? I also ran an 18 at 6:51 overall. In both of these runs, I had plenty left when done.

Add me to the list that suspects that you overtrained. It's easy to tell yourself that you had "plenty left" during your training runs, when perhaps you were more depleted than you thought.

When someone has a bad race despite good training, and there's not an obvious non-physiological explanation (i.e. got stuck in the wrong corral) then it points towards overdoing things. Sometimes being fried shows up as just never feeling good; at other times, it's cramps that you didn't expect.

Either way, I agree with the others - shut it down, recover, and gear up for the spring.

Er... wrote:

You have not wasted the great fitness you currently have. You used it to run an excellent time on a very challenging course. It's disappointing to put in a long-term effort and not get the exact goal you had hoped for but when you consider how thoroughly you trained for NYC does it really make sense to think you could run faster a couple of weeks after thrashing your body the way you've described?

And if you are determined to run another marathon before winter, why not something in December? Tucson, Dec 10, fast downhill course.

outsiderunner wrote:

I see your points here, but my friend thinks I should not waste the great fitness I currently have. I trained like an animal this summer.

Thanks...

Tucson sounds good, but it is a long way from the east coast.

Just admit it. You want to back-to-back so you can join Marathon Maniacs. LOL

darkwave wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

Also, how does a guy run a 22 at 6:53 in training (with hills), and yet run only 7:03 pace in a marathon? I also ran an 18 at 6:51 overall. In both of these runs, I had plenty left when done.

Add me to the list that suspects that you overtrained. It's easy to tell yourself that you had "plenty left" during your training runs, when perhaps you were more depleted than you thought.

When someone has a bad race despite good training, and there's not an obvious non-physiological explanation (i.e. got stuck in the wrong corral) then it points towards overdoing things. Sometimes being fried shows up as just never feeling good; at other times, it's cramps that you didn't expect.

Either way, I agree with the others - shut it down, recover, and gear up for the spring.

Thanks, darkwave, as I think you make good points. I disagree with the spring marathon suggestion. After two injury-plagued winters, winter marathon training gives me the creeps. In fact, after the first winter injury, I should have learned my lesson.

I'm in the same mindset as a lot of others on here. NYC is a tough course and it looks like you were rolling through the first 20. I would make sure you recover well, and with the tough winter conditions, don't feel pressured to run a spring marathon. The fitness won't go away- you'll keep building it up.

I would suggest targeting a fast half marathon in April/May and go for a PR there (unsure what that is relative to your full). Then you should shoot for a fast/flat marathon in the fall. Don't put too much pressure on needing to go from one time to another. Yes, you wanted a sub-3:00 but maybe next fall you'll be closer to 2:50. Keep at it!

How about doing a shorter race in a few weeks? You may not have the speed but a shorter race may be less of a shock to the system.

FightFor15 wrote:

I'm in the same mindset as a lot of others on here. NYC is a tough course and it looks like you were rolling through the first 20. I would make sure you recover well, and with the tough winter conditions, don't feel pressured to run a spring marathon. The fitness won't go away- you'll keep building it up.

I would suggest targeting a fast half marathon in April/May and go for a PR there (unsure what that is relative to your full). Then you should shoot for a fast/flat marathon in the fall. Don't put too much pressure on needing to go from one time to another. Yes, you wanted a sub-3:00 but maybe next fall you'll be closer to 2:50. Keep at it!

More good input--thanks.

Yes, I was rolling through the first 20. Most of the miles were around 6:40, and some of the 6:45s and 6:46s even felt like jogging. I was very surprised by how things ended. Even at 21, I could still get 2:59 (6:48.8 pace overall at that point). I was thinking: "The wind is now finally at my back, and my legs will recover." They didn't.

I have to say, seeing it slip away was heartbreaking. I wanted to go faster, but my legs would not let me. It hurt too much.