what is marathon pace for if you're not a marathoner?

hi!

If you used the Vdot tables you will have used a current best time for a given distance.

Your current marathon pace, according to Jack Daniels, is the pace you could run a marathon at if you were as well prepared/trained for it as you are for the distance/time you used as reference.

10/10 ;)

Sliding scale based on experience & weekly mileage, but MP is close to 5k pace + 1min

As for the benefits. You get in some higher end aerobic work than your usual runs, it helps with your running economy/efficiency, it can help you gain confidence, and it makes your easier paces feel easier (though I guess that is part of the economy/efficiency part, too).

I know it's Runner's World, but this is a pretty good outline of some of the reasons to train at MP:

http://www.runnersworld.com/advanced-training/the-magic-of-marathon-pace

Given how little you run, following the vdot tables most likely means your tempo and track workout paces are too fast. Swapping your tempo out for a marathon paced run every other week would likely make you faster, especially at 10k. It would give you both a long and a short "tempo" run. The longer tempo at marathon pace is much better at "pushing" up the capabilities of your slow twitch fibers rather than only using tempo and track work to "pull" your paces up by working your fast twitch aerobic fibers.

When my max HR was 200, my marathon pace HR was 168-170. For me, rising to that HR--84-85% of max--in the second half of a long run just felt like the right way to train. Monitoring my breathing rate was a part of notching into marathon pace. It was the maximum pace & HR that I could sustain at a 3/3 breathing rate. Just over 170, around 171-172, I would need to downshift to a 3/2 rate.

Even as I've aged and my max HR has declined from 200 (at age 50) to 190 (age 58), I've maintained those basic relationships. 85% of max HR is my marathon pace. Now I get to that effort level (HR, breathing rate) at a HR of around 162. I've learned to recognize the feeling. You could call it the maximum comfortable aerobic pace, I suppose. The pace where you're plainly not accumulating any lactate, or where your lactate level is stable and easy to carry. Learning how to recognize that pace is crucial.

At one point, in a 2005 post on this forum, sensei John Kellogg mentioned my description of this sort of running. Here's a link. Pp. 203-209

http://distancegoldmine.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/2/0/15207232/jk_collection.pdf

dumba55 wrote:

My question was what benefit would there be to doing a 6 mile run at 7:30 pace once every two weeks? The 7:30 pace is my marathon pace according to the vdot tables. What is marathon pace for if you don't run marathons? Say you like to run 5k-10k or even the mile, would there be any use to doing one run a week at marathon pace in addition to easy runs, tempos and track workouts?

If you look at the vdot tables for adjusted t-pace you'll see that 60 minutes T-Pace = M-Pace. Tempo runs shorter than 60 minutes (in your case 8 miles) would be slightly faster than M-Pace and tempos for 60 or more minutes at M-Pace. If you are not training for a marathon there is also no reason to go much longer than 60 minutes / 8 miles, in you case 10 miles are probably the upper limit.

dumba55 wrote:

Hi guys, I'm a hobby jogging slug compared to you guys on here. I can run a mile in 6:00 minutes. I usually do 3-6 mile easy runs (at around 8:20-8:50 pace) 3 times a week and throw in a tempo and track workout.

This really isn't a lot of info. Weekly mileage is a starting point when trying to communicate how much effort you want to make.

I'm gathering 5 runs a week, with 3 easy and 2 workouts. I'm guessing like 24 miles a week. Doing 25% of your mileage in a single marathon pace run is probably too much.

0/10

Also noobish wrote:

Sliding scale based on experience & weekly mileage, but MP is close to 5k pace + 1min

I agree with this

dumba55 wrote:

Hi guys, I'm a hobby jogging slug compared to you guys on here. I can run a mile in 6:00 minutes. I usually do 3-6 mile easy runs (at around 8:20-8:50 pace) 3 times a week and throw in a tempo and track workout.

My question was what benefit would there be to doing a 6 mile run at 7:30 pace once every two weeks? The 7:30 pace is my marathon pace according to the vdot tables. What is marathon pace for if you don't run marathons? Say you like to run 5k-10k or even the mile, would there be any use to doing one run a week at marathon pace in addition to easy runs, tempos and track workouts?

Thanks for any help and I promise this is not a troll post (I see a lot of 0/10 posts replies to seemingly honest posts lol)

Runs at marathon pace are tempos done right.

Agreed. They're "tempos" without the lactic acid build up, i.e. you learn how to run economically without burning glycogen only, i.e. metabolize fat while still running quick.

High end aerobic work gives amazing results. Think of it as a long (8-10 mi) tempo in place of another workout or even long run. You'll get tons of benefits without the stress (on joints) of a 20 min classic tempo.

Good to build aerobic engine, definitely.