Decided to run a marathon/try to BQ, where do I begin?

I honestly think that you can probably break 3 hours right now. Just start a lot slower than you think you can run and you'll be fine. Don't make the mistake I did on my first marathon of going out too hard and walk/jogging the last six miles. I got up to 18 miles before my first marathon, I think going 20-22 will prepare you better for the distance. Hydrate a lot days leading up! I also live in the Houston area btw!

Usually these posts start with "I ran a 18min 5K in high school but now I'm in my late 30s, smoke and drink too much, and I'm wheel chair bound. Also, my wife just gave birth to our third set of twins. Can I BQ this weekend?" But you actually have a pretty good shot given your PRs on relatively low mileage and a full year to train. Honestly, you could prob run a BQ a whole lot sooner.

Hire a coach? Not a bad idea but probably not necessary. I have used two coaches. The first was online and sent me fairly generic training plans (plagiarized versions of Hansen's 5k plan I later found out) and we exchanged a few emails. Pretty much worthless for the money I spent ($100 up front, $45/month) and I cut my losses after 3 months. The next guy was a coach at a track club. It was $15/session and there were four sessions a week. He was better because he actually saw me run and gave me some help with my form, pacing, and race strategy. There were about 50 people at each session of all ability groups (from 15:00 5K guys to walkers) so there wasn't a whole lot of individual attention. Still, it was worth it just for the fact that I got to work out with some faster runners. I think joining a local running club would be a good idea to find some similarly paced runners that you can train with.

Free Plan? Yeah, there are some decent free plans out there. That is a viable course of action. You can actually find Pfitz 18/70 Marathon plan online for free and a whole of people have had success with that plan. I think you are better off just forking over $25 for Pfitz Advanced Marathoning or Daniels Running Formula. Those books cover nutrition, cross training, race prep, etc.

Generally speaking, I would say you need to slowly build up your mileage over the next few months to around 50 - 70 MPW. 50 MPW seems to be the minimum and most people need around 70 MPW to go sub3. Once you are comfortable at the higher mileage start Daniels, Pfitz, or any other reputable training plan. Anecdotally, I jumped into Pfitz 12/70 off 3 months of 50-60 MPW base training and ran 2:51 for my only marathon. I haven't used Daniels but my understanding is that you need to be more comfortable at higher mileage before starting... he hits jumps into it a bit quick whereas Pfitz has a few weeks in the 50s up front.

You will have no problem running sub3.

Agree with most of this.

A coach is nice if you get someone knowledgeable, but that's really a crap shoot.

I'm a big advocate of Daniels and have used his plans for my two marathons with good success, but he is right - his mileage jumps around a bit. If you top out at 70 (which is what I'd recommend for you on your history), you'd vary between 50 and 70 mpw on the Daniels plan that I've used (from 2nd edition of his book).

Regardless, I view the book as an invaluable training aid. I imagine the Pfitz book would be too, although I've never read it. If you read either of those, you should be able to coach yourself.

Take the training for the half marathon and add mileage to the long run and the next longest run.

Nutrition---you probably eat fine. You may need to experiment with fueling during the marathon. Honestly, I would aim for a Spring 2017 marathon if you have been running pretty consistently for the past couple of months.

Cross training? Meh...

Good grief. I'm 40+, 1:25 half, high 17:xx 5k. Never went above 21 miles in training, but did lots of quality half MP half easy long runs. Easy sub-3:00.

With a 1:20 half! Cake piece. Consistent 60mpw with peak 80mpw and you are easily in 2:50s. Normally these sub-3:00 threads are guys with 1:25-1:27 halfs.

Good luck. Do those MP long runs and keep your mileage up. Have some down weeks to prevent injury. Believe in yourself and negative split it.

Plus, you only need around a 3:02 to BQ. Has it ever been under 3 minutes below? 3:02 is a nearly a nice casual 7:00 min/mile pace. Easy off a taper and proper training for a 1:20 half marathoner.

not a skeptic. you got this! wrote:

Consistent 60mpw with peak 80mpw and you are easily in 2:50s. Normally these sub-3:00 threads are guys with 1:25-1:27 halfs.

I think you might be ready to run one now, although I'm not sure what your weekly mileage has been.

IMO, weekly mileage is more important than your weekly long run. Both are important! But too many runners place "more" importance on the long run compared to weekly mileage. People will disagree but I think your weekly mileage is the #1 determining factor. I agree with the guy above that 60-80 mpw should be enough to run a sub 3, for a guy at your fitness level.

I would aim for a 2:55-2:59. Then if you have any issues out there, hopefully you can still manage a 3:02.

I heard a guy named Jeff Galloway has a lot of great ideas.

Plus, you can get either of those books on Amazon for $15...not $25.

Bought and read Daniels' Running Formula. To this point in my running career all of my training has been base, threshold, interval, taper phases in that order with a weekly long run, workouts on Tues/Thurs, and a race on weekends during season. This is very similar to all of his plans up to half marathon, which I am comfortable with.

His marathon plans really only have two workouts a week, one of which is a long run, and the rest is easy running. Somewhat different than I am used to. The two plans that interest me are the 2Q and 5-week cycles but neither have the different phases I am used to.

Is this normal for marathon training? Minimal workouts, lots of easy running and focus on just getting in the miles?

Anyone who has trained using Daniels to BQ, what plan did you follow and any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

If you run 6:25 for 14 miles in training you can run sub 3 almost tomorrow.

You don't need a plan. Just run 16 miles then 18 then 20 a couple of times and you're done. You just need to get your body accustomed to the distance. Your hard work is done.

Knowledgeless Newbie wrote:

Is this normal for marathon training? Minimal workouts, lots of easy running and focus on just getting in the miles?

Yes, the physiological changes the body needs to make to run a marathon to your current fitness potential comes from high* mileage training.

*we could argue for days how to define this, but it's widely accepted that 70mpw is where the benefits of additional mileage start to decrease rather quickly. So if reducing the intensity and number of workouts helps you get to this number quicker and safer, it's best to do so. Then once you're comfortable with that mileage, reintroduce the intense training.

I've run 2:35 and 2:30 at ages 42 and 43, respectively, following Training Plan A from the 2nd edition of Daniels' book. I am under the impression that that plan is similar to the 2Q plan. It has two quality days a week. Some weeks that includes the long run. Many weeks though, the long day also I'm life's tempo efforts within it. I'm using the same plan for Boston this year. It's actually a fairly tough plan when you get deep into the miles and the big tempo efforts.

Those are not "minimal" workouts.

Re-read the book and don't Rossi it this time.

A huge part of this is choosing a good marathon to BQ, meaning fairly flat with good weather. In other words, nowhere in Texas in the fall. I've run Houston in January and it was perfect. Baton Rouge is also in January, beautiful and fast and they ALWAYS have great weather (plus a short flight for you?)

FinRich wrote:

If you run 6:25 for 14 miles in training you can run sub 3 almost tomorrow.

You don't need a plan. Just run 16 miles then 18 then 20 a couple of times and you're done. You just need to get your body accustomed to the distance. Your hard work is done.

I think the above is the clearest, best advice. If your runs are fast enough now or your races indicate you can run a marathon fast enough then you are likely ready now.

I ran my first half marathons this summer and first two marathons. I BQ'ed at my first marathon with 6 minutes to spare. I decided to run another marathon in early November to get a 2018 BQ and to qualify for Chicago. My 2nd marathon was a BQ with almost 20 minutes to spare. I am in my early 50's and ran a 3:10 at my 2nd marathon. My half marathon time is 1:32. You should be able to go under 3 without a problem. I only run 35 to 45 mpw with most weeks around 40. I have no coach. Run 5 miles for most runs. I try to get one or two longer runs in each week. I run faster when I feel good and slower on days my muscles feel tired. My 5 to 8 miles training runs are at a 7 to 7:40 pace. I had not planned on running a marathon this year but my first, slower, first half marathon time indicated I could BQ. I actually passed a local coach who is younger than me who ran Boston this year. This encourage me. It was a particularly hilly, hot, and humid race. I know he did not pick up water at each aid station so I think I only passed him in the last 3 miles because I was better hydrated. I just used a few on the online race time predictors that indicated I could BQ. I used no coach. I followed no training plan. I just started running again in March after 16 months off due to a few injuries. I would recommend finding other fast runners to run with occasionally. I did and they encouraged me. It helped me to get in some faster training runs without having to sign up for a race to have competition. I probably ran two 14 miles training runs and a few 12 mile training runs before my first half marathon and full marathon. I had a 16 mile training run 6 days before my first marathon that I used as confirmation that I could run a BQ. That was the extent of my long runs over 10 miles. I know I should have done more of them and should not have done one 6 days before a race. I like to keep my runs to no longer than 5 miles for a week before the race with easy runs of 3 or 4 miles for 2 days and then maybe just an easy one or two mile jog the night before. I just reduce my training effort a few days before so my muscles are not fatigued at all the day of the race. I could probably benefit from a training plan and a good coach. I would probably need to do something more to cut much more time off. My point is I think you are ready to BQ and I think others can BQ as I did without a coach or a training plan. Both may help but are not required.

My advice would be to find a marathon that is not too hilly and not likely to be too hot or humid. Give yourself more than one race where you may BQ in case the weather is not conducive to obtaining a BQ or in case you not physically capable that one day due to a injury or fatigue. Do not pass by any water station without picking up some water or Gatorade. I would often loose 10 to 15 seconds at each water stop because I preferred to slow down enough to be able to take in some fluids. Even with this I found myself dehydrated for hours after my races. I prefer to mix the Gatorade with water at the water stops. I also pour water over my head to cool off. I consumed one gel packet every 4 to 6 miles. The first 18 miles seemed to go by pretty fast and easy. It got harder to maintain my pace the next 2 to 4 miles. The last 4 to 6 can be very difficult. My neck hurt and my head felt lightheaded. I was fortunate to have someone else running my pace for the last 4 to 6 miles. At that point I focused on staying with the other runner, staying on my pace in case the other runner slowed, and on watching my steps to avoid falling. You need to think about how you can mentally handle it. At 21 miles I say to myself I only have about 5 miles to go an I can run that any day without a problem. With 2 to go I say that is a run around my block. I am just getting loosened up fully at 2 miles so I can handle 2 miles today. The first 18 miles are about maintaining your desired pace, using good and efficient running form, and staying hydrated the best you can. The last 6 to 8 are about holding on your investment and keeping a positive attitude as the level of difficulty rises. Be careful to not start out too fast. I still start out too fast for the first 4 miles. I would allow a decrease of about 15 to 30 seconds per mile for the last 4 to 6 miles. I like to have a safe buffer of banked time that I can draw from as needed knowing that I can still BQ. While it may be ideal to negative split, I don't think it would be easy to do especially for someone without a lot of marathon experience.

Agree with this, and would go even further: run the BQ before June. 2x Boston finisher who's also prepped for three fall marathons while living in Austin, and doing your buildup in the TX summer is miserable. Way too much energy required to recover from the heat and dehydration day to day. You can and should do it this spring.

If interested in a personal online coach, then please shoot me an email and I can provide more info!

I appreciate all the positive feedback that y'all think I can do it this Spring rather than in the Fall.

Two things I'm concerned about are weather and current fitness.

Weather wise, I feel like a May/June marathon would be immensely harder than a Dec/Jan marathon here in Texas due to humidity and heat. Do I fly somewhere to race such as Grandma's in MN or just find a local full marathon and deal with conditions?

Fitness wise, I raced a half mid-Dec in 1:23 so not quite in recent top shape and just started running again from two-week break period. Do y'all think that I would be able to get in shape / adjusted to higher mileage for a May/June marathon?

Again, appreciate all the feedback.