Were any of the African teams subjected to out-of-comp drug testing? Has a drug tester from WADA ever been to the national training camps of any of the major powers - Ethiopia, Kenya, Qatar? Can any world meet be viewed as legitimate when all competitors are not subject to the same level of drug testing?
GoodQuestion wrote:
Were any of the African teams subjected to out-of-comp drug testing? Has a drug tester from WADA ever been to the national training camps of any of the major powers - Ethiopia, Kenya, Qatar? Can any world meet be viewed as legitimate when all competitors are not subject to the same level of drug testing?
Is this the expression of your depression regarding the oppressive dominance of the Africans at the WXC's?
I thought so. It's not drugs; the Americans and Europeans jut aren't good enough.
They have to be available for testing as per IAAF rules. Remember what happened to Ngugi -- for whatever reason he refused to submit to the test so he received a 2yr ban. If you're unavailable for testing, it's as good as failing it.
I was talking with one guy who concluded that countries like Ethiopia don't have testing programs because their program is dirty. I think what this guy didn't take into account is that Ethiopia is the fifth poorest country in the world -- spend money on a USADA-like program, or food?
Great answer to my question. I'll interepret your irrelevant response as meaning that you don't know and that it's highly unlikely that they've been visited by testers. American and Euro athletes train knowing that testers might show up at any moment. African-based athletes train under the assumption that there's no way a tester will ever visit their camp. Doesn't mean they're doping, but it means we can't say with confidence that they're not.
What was going on in China in the mid 90's?? However, the rivalry between Kenya and Ethiopia and Eritrea is not a friendly one. I think that if they knew they would turn in each other in like Trevor Graham did to the Balco gang.
Trackhead, by your logic Ethiopia shouldn't even be spending money on an athletic program - no running funds until the whole country's been fed. Mandating availability for athletes who will never be tested is a far cry from actually testing them.
Not when many of the top athletes - Bekele and Kipchoge for example - are with the same manager.
How much funding goes into Ethiopian Athletics? They have one rubber track in the whole nation and that one has holes in it.
Yeah...yeah...yeah...all Africans are on drugs...if there were no drugs America and Europe would dominate...yawn!
Next crybaby please.
Again excellent responses (sarcasm), the ad hominem arugment does not work here - calling me a whiner does nto support your position.
No one has even gotten close to answering my question - are they tested, and if not are the champs legit. We know that the primary endurance boosters have a detectability window that renders in-comp testing inadequate, yet it appears that no steps are being taken to see that top performers are being subjected to the same level of scrutiny that the others in the field have to deal with. Honestly, I'm a huge fan of the African runners, but I'd like to see a bit more of an effort from the powers that be to confirm the legitimacy of their performances with OOC testing at the camps in Africa.
They need to be available for WADA testing in order to be eligible.
Testing by whom? Since no one bothers testing them, availability is a moot argument.
They NEVER , note NEVER get tested in Africa or other inaccessible countries. There is not a testing lab there, other excuses are that Africans move around a lot, do not have proper street addresses or do not have technology to notify anti-doping officials where they are. They know when they will travel to Europe and when they will get tested - make up your own mind.
WADA needs to be able to test them year round -- you speak as if they're hiding in bushes.
My goodness...there is a such a thing as superiority...how long have Africans been dominating this race?...did this happen overnight? No...there is a history of this the comprehensive domination...go back and have a look at the records of tis meet...men and women, juniors and seniors...people dominate in sports...for real...Boston Celtics...Edwin Moses...Carl Lewis...Federer in tennis..Tiger Woods in golf...Brazil in soccer...Al Oerter in the Discus...Louganis in diving...a handful of nations dominate swimming, tennis, golf, gymnastics,...what's the problem? How come African domination has to be drug- related? How did Phelps and Spitz dominate in swimming? Why are the US and Australia the best in those sports? Do you lose sleep at night wondering about that? Or is that just the natural order of things as far as you are concerned?
Soreloser...thank you. My sentiments exactly.
Not wrote:
GoodQuestion wrote:Were any of the African teams subjected to out-of-comp drug testing? Has a drug tester from WADA ever been to the national training camps of any of the major powers - Ethiopia, Kenya, Qatar? Can any world meet be viewed as legitimate when all competitors are not subject to the same level of drug testing?
Is this the expression of your depression regarding the oppressive dominance of the Africans at the WXC's?
I thought so. It's not drugs; the Americans and Europeans jut aren't good enough.
I would put it a little differently. The Americans and Europeans just aren't good enough anymore.
UoL, do you have evidence for that argument or is it just your baseless assumption? I have a feeling that it is a conclusion arrived from what you errantly think to be sound logic.
GoodQuestion, it sounds like you have already made up your mind on this. You reject any evidence that trackhead has given to you. Since you already have such a well-thought-out opinion, you posted, not a question, but an afirmation of your dogma. I have no answer to your question, but it doesn't really matter...you only intended to hear the one answer that agrees with you.
Are there dirty Africans? Sure. Are they all dirty? I doubt it. Just because they continue to dominate distance running doesn't mean that they are all dirty and all of the other competitors are clean. There are dirty Americans, Europeans and Asians. So give up the whining.
Wow, I ask a simple question - semi-rhetorically since I believe I already know the answer - and the responses are all vitriol and no info.
Trackhead, I agree that the athletes are available and not hiding in the bushes. Several newspaper pieces have made it very clear where the athletes are - Kenyans at Kigari, Qataris at Iten, Ethiopians at their usual places. So the athletes themselves have satisfied the availability portion of the WADA's requirements. What I'm wondering, and what no one has even attempted to address, is if they're being tested, and if not, why.
All someone would have to do to put an end to this is provide legitimate information establishing that "an unannounced collection of samples for out of competition testing was collected at XXXX traning camp on XXXX date." Unfortunately, no such statement can be made because no such collection of samples for testing has ever taken place, and this non-activity on the testing front has gone on for so long that athletes now know that they can do anything they please without risk of being tested, much less caught, so long as they remain in the team camp in Africa.
considering how poor those African countries are, I doubt that drugs would be enough to put them where they are today, and besides, the drugs would be rather expensive. If you put the best Americans on the same drugs, assuming they exist and are in use, none would be able to run 26:22 for 10k. Africans have very light bodies, which bodes well for distance running, as any pre-highschool girl phenom could tell you.