sub 1:40 800m

three: coe, cruz and kipketer

yeah sorry..i didnt even think of him.

it's going to be an endurance athlete -- the 800m is too aerobic for a 400m/800m runner to run so fast. Statistically, 800/1500m runners have run better and in greater numbers than 400/800 runners. You'd probably look for a runner with 46.0 400m speed and a great aerobic fitness.

Top 800m Runners with middle/long distance backgrounds:

Athlete 800m Best (all-time rank) 1500m/mile Best (all-time rank) Accolades

Wilson Kipketer (DAN) 1:41.13 (WR) 3:42.80 (Not ranked) /3:59.7 (764) gold 1995/1997/1999 World 800m, silver 2000 OG, 2003 WIC 800m, 2004 OG bronze

Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1:41.73 (2) 3:29.77 (14)/3:47.33 (9) 1980/84 Olympic 800m silver, 1500m gold; 1986 European 800m

gold

Joaquim Cruz (BRA) 1:41.77 (3) 3:34.6 (148)/3:53.00 (113) 1984 Olympic 800m gold, 1988 Olympic 800m silver

Sammy Koskei (KEN) 1:42.28 (4) 3:38.50 (603)

Vebjørn Rodal (NOR) 1:42.58 (5) 3:37.57 (421) 1996 Olympic 800m gold

André Bucher (SUI) 1:42.55 (7) 3:38.44 (589) 2001 World 800m gold*

Hezekiél Sepeng (RSA) 1:42.69 (11) 3:38.24 (541) 800m silver 1994/98 CWG, 96 Olympic Games, 1999 World Championships

Japheth Kimutai (KEN) 1:42.69 (12) 3:34.14 (125) 1998 Commonwealth 800m gold

Steve Cram (GBR) 1:42.88 (16) 3:29.67 (12)/3:46.32 (4) 1983 1500m gold, 1982/1986 Commonwealth &

European 1500m gold, 800m bronze

Mbulaeni Mulaudzi (RSA) 1:42.89 (17) 3:39.70 (Not ranked) 800m gold 2002 CWG, 2004 World Indoors, 2004 OG, bronze 2003 World

Championships

William Yiampoy (KEN) 1:43.00 (19) 3:34.12 (122) 4th 2001 World Championships 800m

Peter Elliot (GBR) 1:42.97 (18) 3:32.69 (58) Gold 1990 CWG 1500m, silver 1987 WC, 1988 Olympic 800m

José Luiz Barbosa (BRA) 1:43.08 (23) 3:37.04 (360) 800m bronze/silver 1987/1991 World Championships

Benson Koech (KEN) 1:43.17 (29) 3:32.09 (62) 1992 World Junior 800m gold

Mehdi Baala (FRA) 1:43.15 (27) 3:28.98 (6) 1500m gold 2002 European Champs., silver 2003 World Champs.,

bronze 2002 World Cup

William Tanui (KEN) 1:43.30 (31) 3:30.58 (18) 1992 Olympic 800m gold

Nixon Kiprotich (KEN) 1:43.31 (32) 3:38.76 (665) Silver 1990 CWG, 1992 Olympic 800m

William Chirchir (KEN) 1:43.33 (33) 3:29.29 (8) 2002 Commonwealth 1500m silver

Rich Kenah (USA) 1:43.38 (36) 3:37.63 (434) Silver 1997 World Indoor, Outdoor 800m

Rick Wohlhuter (USA) 1:43.5h (41) 3:53.3h (127) 1976 Olympic 800m bronze

Rob Druppers (NED) 1:43.56 (45) 3:35.07 (169) 1983 WC 800m silver

Mike Boit (KEN) 1:43.57 (46) 3:33.67 (89) 1972 Olympic 800m bronze, '78 World Cup silver

Abdi Bile (SOM) 1:43.60 (48) 23:30.55 (19) 1987 World Championship 1500m gold

Earl Jones (USA) 1:43.62 (49) 3:36.19 (266) 1984 Olympic 800m bronze

Laban Rotich (KEN) 1:43.65 (51) 3:29.91 (13)/3:47.65 (10) 1998 World Cup 1500m gold, 1999 World Indoor 1500m silver

*It should be noted that Bucher came from a very long distance background; Bucher competed at the World Junior Cross Country Championships in 1995 and has set PRs of 8:16.9 (3000m), 14:06.77 (5000m) and 30:40.5 (10000m).

Top 800m Runners with Sprinting Backgrounds:

Athlete 800m Best (all-time rank) 400m Best (all-time rank) Accolades

Patrick Ndururi (KEN) 1:42.62 (10) 45.71A (553) 7th in 1997 World 800m Champ.

Norberto Téllez (CUB) 1:42.85 (12) 45.27 (260) 1996 Olympic 800m bronze

Frederick Onyancha (KEN) 1:42.79 (13) 45.2hA 1996 Olympic 800m 4th

Billy Konchellah (KEN) 1:43.06 (18) 45.38A (321) 1987/1991 World 800m gold

Paul Ereng (KEN) 1:43.16 (21) 45.6 (490) 1988 800m Olympic gold

Mark Everett (USA) 1:43.20 (24) 44.59 (53) 9 time USA champion

Alberto Juanterrena (CUB) 1:43.44 (33) 44.26 (18) 1976 Olympic 400m/800m gold, '78 World Cup gold

I am 98% certain Kipketer was on drugs (EPO, etc.)when he

ran his 1:41s; some of his splits simply make no sense whatsoever without drugs, such as running a 1:41xx after opening with a 22.8 first 200...

That leaves Coe and Cruz, both of whom ran 1:41.7x...

Cruz had 400 and mile PRs of 46.0 and 3:53xx (IIRC)

Coe had 400 and mile PRs of 46.8 and 3:47xx

Moral: It is _extremely_ difficult to conceive of someone running a drug-free 1:39!

yeah ...well i never said anything about drug free...

Load to the gills it dont think it will matter that much..

still kinda doubt it will happen.

I think Michael Johnson on about a gallon of epo per day could have done it.

A bit of a tangent, what do you think Snell's 1:44.3 on grass is worth with today's tracks and equipment?

P-Dizzle My Nizzle Fo Shizzle wrote:

I think Michael Johnson on about a gallon of epo per day could have done it.

Think of it this way, how hard would michael Johnson have to run to get a 50 second quarter? It would seem that he could run a 50 and then another 25 second 200 after that, but his aerobic fitness would not allow him to heep up that pace for another 200 to get his 1:40.

There are some young sprinters that are running 44.xx second 400s which on paper appear better than the 400m PRs of the guys that are running 1:42 or so. I wonder if any of them have any sort of motivation to move up to the 800.

On paper, Snells WR is worth significantly faster with all factors taken into consideration. An actual figure??? could be looking at 1.5-2 seconds maybe. BUT

Even though I love Snell, and he is one of few who could be considered for GOAT status, Im not quite sure of the legibility of the track he ran on. Whenever a track is less than 400m, and NOT there all the time, it has to be questionable. Lancaster park was not a athletics track, and the track was marked the day before the meeting. You have to take THAT into consideration too.

I feel that if any of these talented 400 runners, especially Jeremy Wariner, were to focus on the 800 for just one season they would go under 1:40. One of the things Arthur Lydiard said when I was lucky enough to hear him speak last fall was that the 800 was the weakest record on the books and that sub 1:40 was definitely possible. I mean look these guys can run a 400 in 43 seconds and sub 1:40 is two sub 50 second 400's. I remember seeing Michael Johnson run a 44 400 one time, then give an interview directly afterwards not out of breath like he just jogged it. Unfortunately it is all just speculation at this point because when these guys are that good at the 400 why would they want to move up. On the other hand this country is so damn deep at the 400 that any of these guys who eventually realize they could kick ass at the 800 might move up just to be the top dog in an event. I would have loved to have seen Micheal Johnson focus on it one seasno, but I think Wariner is THE ONE that has the most potential at 800m, it would be interesting to hear what Clyde Hart thinks about this.

disagree on Kip -- he was simply the best. I know runners who ran against him and are still highly involved in the sport -- he's got the green light.

I have no doubt that this barrier will be broken at some point in the future. Probably not for a while, but definitely it will be broken.

yeah the 800m record does seem relativley weak... i mean think about it "it's only two 50 sec quarters needed" when kids these days are running 44's indoors

If someone could pace a motivated Borzakowski to 49,5 and 1:14,5 he could do it.

I agree that moving up from the 400 is a big jump, but what might help is the fact that the 400 is developing so quickly now. We are looking at three guys running 44 flat (or below) this spring, now these three know they have a spot at worlds but what about the rest of the country? I think that this much talent at the top will force a few of the "slower" guys to consider moving up.

Rather than discussing the big three... we should be talking about the 44 high, 45 low guys (Rock, etc.) who should move up to 800. With so much young talent in the 400, moving up might be their best shot at making the teams for worlds/olympics in the next four to eight years.

The only reason you guys think Wariner is the one is beacuase he is white.

Madein_82 wrote:

There seems to be this idea that, sooner or later some 400m runner, is going to com up and do this ??

why?

Two people in the world have gone under 1:42, im just not sure a sub1:40 is humanly possible.

Aha, we found something to disagree on! :-)

What you write is true, but let me put it a different way for you:

'Nearly a quarter of a century ago, somone ran 1:41.7. If the 800 record had improved as much over this time as THE AVERAGE imrpovement hat has occured in all other men's events, then someone WOULD ALREADY be under 1:40.'

To go from Coe's time to 1:39.99, the record would need to drop about 1.7%.

MEN's WR PROGRESSION SINCE 1981

(now I pulled these #'s and did the math kinda quickly, so if there is a mistake, let me know)

100 M record in 1981: 9.94

Today: 9.79

improvement: 1.5%

200 M record in '81 19.72

today 19.32

Improvement: 2.03%

400m record in '81 43.86

today: 43.18

improvement: 1.56%

800 record in '81 1:41.73

today 1:41.11

improvement .06%

1500 record in '81 3:31.57

today 3:26.00

improvement: 2.64%

3000 SC record in '81: 8:05.4

today 7:53

improvement 2.43%

5000 wr in '81 13:00.41

(actually '82, but since Moorcroft's time was such a big drop, I used that time.....my choice. ;-)

today 12:37.35

improvement 2.95%

10,000 wr in '81 27:22.4

today 26:20.31

improvement 3.8%

marathon wr in '81 2:08:18

today 2:04:55

improvement 2.65%

Average improvement in Men's WR over this time, excluding 800m = 2.44%

SOOOO.........if the 800 had improved like other events, someone should be right at 1:40 or under. This of course is also a huge testament to Sebastian Coe's performance.

But I still say, that the WR has been obviously stagnant.

And if a 400 man (likely American) with 44-flat speed, and a WILLINGNESS to really train for the 800 (and one who shows shows even a little natural aerobic ability) goes for it........he will have a chance to do it.

OR.......an Ethiopian who spends a WHOLE CAREER training for 800, working on his power and speed along with his endurance. Ethiopians seem to be the super-human distance men, and a Kenyan has run nearly 1:41 flat, right? So.......if an Ethiopian with the superhuman aerobic abilities of his teammates AND some real natural speed REALLY goes for a career in the 800, then he too will have a shot. It will be ONE of the those types who does it my opinion.

By Purdy, a 43.7 400 is equivalent to 1:40. The catch is that anybody who can run 43.7--and that's maybe more than Wariner now--is going to go for the 400 record, not the 800. Guys like Juantorena and Mark Everett could run 44-low maybe, but didn't get close to even 1:41. I think guys like Rock might be able to medal in the Olympics, but they're not going to do 1:40 unless they pick up an awful lot of aerobic power, and without giving away any of their 400 speed (which isn't easy). Rock probably can't even do what Juantorena did, let alone Kipketer.

If a guy like Wariner or Clement runs the first 42, he might be persuaded to feel that the next great challenge remaining might be 1:40. Then again, he might think the next great challenge is 19.32.

[quote]Sir Lance-alot wrote:

[quote]Madein_82 wrote:

And if a 400 man (likely American) with 44-flat speed, and a WILLINGNESS to really train for the 800 (and one who shows shows even a little natural aerobic ability) goes for it........he will have a chance to do it.

quote]

Like Clement?