I'm pretty fast at 1500-8K, D1 runner and I have never done a squat or deadlift. The only maybe three people I know that do them suffer from back tightness and they don't really compete. Yet every time I come on letsrun, someone is telling someone to do heavy squats and deadlifts. Wtf? Are they serious????? Or just trolling?
That's a rigorous study you cite there.
1. Do what works for you
2. Maybe you'll be faster if you do squats and or deadliest
I would not recommend going heavy on deadlifts (I hate squats) unless you are a sprinter, field guy or in another sport. I never understood why people here would recommend heavy lifts for distance runners. I really used to love doing deadlifts but I was not running much at the time. I can't imagine having big glutes and trying to run fast over anything over 400 meters.
I came into running as an adult after I had spent some quality time on squats and deadlifts and I think it's helped me be more durable. I eventually was able to run 2:2x for the marathon and a lot of 100-115 mile weeks. If you aren't getting hurt I don't see a benefit, it's hard to do those workouts without seriously hampering your running.
When I was in college, HS and middle school, I worked on a farm. All that work made exercises like squats and deadlifts unnecessary. Now I'm 50 and sit in meetings all day. Trust me, I NEED to do squats, deadlifts and a whole lot more to be able to run basically at all.
You may have built up basic fitness in other ways as a kid. What we are trying to tell you is that you have to do something to keep it or it will slowly disappear and the next thing you know, you are injured and out of the sport.
Most people recommending deadlifts and squats are doing so for the strength and aesthetic benefits. If you are an elite runner trying to be as fast as possible they're probably not necessary. If you would like to look better in clothes and want a little muscle then do these types of exercises as a compliment to your running.
Squats??? wrote:
I'm pretty fast at 1500-8K, D1 runner and I have never done a squat or deadlift. The only maybe three people I know that do them suffer from back tightness and they don't really compete. Yet every time I come on letsrun, someone is telling someone to do heavy squats and deadlifts. Wtf? Are they serious????? Or just trolling?
How fast? You might think you're fast but no one is super impressed by the 1:51/3:46 guy.
Science is scary...
Summary:
Resistance training improves running economy in trained runners.
Explosive movements and plyometrics improves running economy and performance in trained runners.
If you are sore after heavy lifting its because you don't lift often enough. Follow a basic linear progression, start twice a week 75% max for 3 x 8, as running training intensity increases reduce volume to once a week while increasing intensity to 85% max for 3 x 5.
Don't squat and deadlift the same workout. Do one or the other in an alternating fashion. Add DB lunges, dips, pullups.
Alan
I like doing dead lifts with single arm dumbbell. I just don't like the barbell deadlift. Don't really like the barbell squat (dumbbell squat seems like bad idea however I have heard of some dude who just held 80lb weight in center and did one leg squat for balance). I prefer to just do body weight squats.
The dumbbell dead lift gives my grip, muscle fibers etc a lot of stimulation and I gather my entire body. Seems to stimulate positive growth the whole body over. I do it only occasionally when I really feel the need and not just to show off: I liken it to sharpening on the track. Do it too much without proper rest and base and you'll screw up your rotator cuffs.
For two armed deadlfts perhaps something more natural would be better. Like a large stone... So I've heard.
Anyway I know a lot of athletes and college track athletes do the fancy barbell stuff I just never liked it. There's research supporting it sure but my empirical experience supports my preference. As per direct correlation with running performance my empirical experience shows none. It's more just general benefits that support the body and life health. Similar example: brushing flossing and showering probably don't correlate to better PRs but not doing those things is dumb.
Andyyyyy wrote:
I came into running as an adult after I had spent some quality time on squats and deadlifts and I think it's helped me be more durable. I eventually was able to run 2:2x for the marathon and a lot of 100-115 mile weeks. If you aren't getting hurt I don't see a benefit, it's hard to do those workouts without seriously hampering your running.
Which, is why it's a good idea to do the heavy work early in an annual training cycle. They definitely helped me much later.
Fijibeegees wrote:
I like doing dead lifts with single arm dumbbell. I just don't like the barbell deadlift. Don't really like the barbell squat (dumbbell squat seems like bad idea however I have heard of some dude who just held 80lb weight in center and did one leg squat for balance). I prefer to just do body weight squats.
The dumbbell dead lift gives my grip, muscle fibers etc a lot of stimulation and I gather my entire body. Seems to stimulate positive growth the whole body over. I do it only occasionally when I really feel the need and not just to show off: I liken it to sharpening on the track. Do it too much without proper rest and base and you'll screw up your rotator cuffs.
For two armed deadlfts perhaps something more natural would be better. Like a large stone... So I've heard.
Anyway I know a lot of athletes and college track athletes do the fancy barbell stuff I just never liked it. There's research supporting it sure but my empirical experience supports my preference. As per direct correlation with running performance my empirical experience shows none. It's more just general benefits that support the body and life health. Similar example: brushing flossing and showering probably don't correlate to better PRs but not doing those things is dumb.
I'm relieved to hear you're not using one arm dumbbell deadlifts to show off.
In order to helpful in addition to sarcastic, use that dumbbell to do one arm snatches. A one arm dumbbell deadlift is almost worthless. Do regular deadlifts as they're intended with heavy weight. For most people, mastering the barbell snatch is not going to happen and is therefore dangerous. The one arm dumbbell snatch is a good explosive movement without the danger of the barbell element.
That guy, absolutely correct
I've been running for more than 60 years, have periodically done squats and deadlifts, but don't do them anymore.
They can help make your legs very strong, but in ways that are detrimental to your running. At least, they won't cause harm, but they always slow you down, because the muscles get too big, too strong, and they are not specific to running. Thus they take more energy, and create needless weight and demands for the body to carry. At the worse, they can damage your legs and end your serious running forever.
If you want to make your legs strong, run hills, or run faster repetitions, and stay away from the weights. Things like yoga, pilates, calisthenics and floor exercises in moderation should be fine, but don't take them to extremes.
That guy... wrote:
Most people recommending deadlifts and squats are doing so for the strength and aesthetic benefits. If you are an elite runner trying to be as fast as possible they're probably not necessary. If you would like to look better in clothes and want a little muscle then do these types of exercises as a compliment to your running.
Ummm... ever heard of Mo Farah and Galen Rupp?
Yeah dude, they're serious
You know that massive burn you get in your hammies and glutes after an 800? The first time i started deadlifting (and with pretty light weight, 60lbs), my hammies were sore for a full week and a half. Even though the stressors are different, I can't help but believe there is some mutually beneficial overlap. Plus you aren't going to "get huge" lifting unless you are lifting like a beast, eating like a horse, and not running as much. Stop being a pvssy and start lifting even if just for the general health of it.
Runningart2004 wrote:
If you are sore after heavy lifting its because you don't lift often enough. Follow a basic linear progression, start twice a week 75% max for 3 x 8, as running training intensity increases reduce volume to once a week while increasing intensity to 85% max for 3 x 5.
Don't squat and deadlift the same workout. Do one or the other in an alternating fashion. Add DB lunges, dips, pullups.
This.
I don´t run nowhere nearly as much as in the past, and did about a year whole body general strenth training, with weights also, reps about 10, 3 sets, hyperthrophic style. Gained about 2kilograms more weight (muscle, more ripped).
Now have recently started heavier weights, squatting up to 81kg (my weight 68kg), like 3x5x81kg, lunges as heavy as 3x5x50kg, and never been this strong. Also LOTS of core work, planks, weighted situps etc. Also hill sprints and bounding. I can do now 22 pull ups, 3x50x push ups easily with 1 minute recovery. 5+ min planks.
I feel like there´s no leak in my stride, my core and back I feel could take much more running now than before. I have done some higher mileage weeks without problems, and my easy-medium running pace is quite close to what it has been a long time. As you get older, I feel it´s increasingly important to hit some real weights.
Squats??? wrote:
I'm pretty fast at 1500-8K, D1 runner and I have never done a squat or deadlift. The only maybe three people I know that do them suffer from back tightness and they don't really compete. Yet every time I come on letsrun, someone is telling someone to do heavy squats and deadlifts. Wtf? Are they serious????? Or just trolling?
Well, you might be even faster if you did them.
Are you this fast?...